I grew up in Hayward and got picked on a bit in middle school, so this question has been in my head for a good 4 years now. Last night I also saw some punk teenagers break a car's mirror while walking down the street in my home neighborhood, which is why this post has become necessary.
To what degree can you assault someone depending on the situation in self defense? By this I mean legally and can be easily defended as such if charges were to arise against me.
The only clear cut situation that I ever get an answer on is if they break into your house, you're free to kill them as it's a forceful entry and anyone who forces their way into your house can be seen as hostile.
Then the more gray areas come up. What if someone is breaking into your car and you walk out with a bat/ crowbar/ gun and they see you and run at you? Do they have to hit you first or can you proceed to beat them up/ shoot them until you can keep them in check without any further beating.
If someone throws a punch or 2 at you but you're not strong enough to simply restrain them, can you say break a limb or beat the hell out of one of their joints so that you can restrain them? If they're still unable to be controlled can you proceed to attempt to damage/ break more limbs or even kill them if the situation is dangerous enough?
I'm not a violent person by any means but I grow more concerned as I seem to be surrounded by more and more aggressive/ hostile individuals. I know you're SUPPOSED to just let someone who's stealing your car take it and call the cops, blah blah blah. But that's my damn car and the likelihood of the thieves being caught by just calling the cops has been very slim from all of the car theft stories I come across in car forums.
If you're looking for legal advice, this forum's going to be of less use than Google.
If you're looking for people's opinions, well, I dunno.
both? lol.
on the subject of self-defense: if you can incapacitate them without endangering their lives, I'm somewhat sure its fair game.
when it comes to someone stealing your car: if they come at you with a weapon, you can defend yourself with a weapon that is equal in power to what they are using.
don't take my words to heart, this is just what i know.
what if you're physically weaker and require a weapon of sorts?
So arm/ leg breaking is fair play? win.
This won't end well. This stuff never ends well. But Self-Defense imo is rendering the opponent unable to attempt to continue what caused you to act in self-defense in the less fatal way. I only say that because if you kill the guy you're seeing time in jail unfortunatly.
unless they were shooting at you with a gun.
unless you're a master at any given martial arts, you can kill in self defense if such an extreme is necessary.
once you formally master a martial arts form, you're registered with the government i believe. no matter what, you now can't kill in self defense.
Quote from: JTchinoy
what if you're physically weaker and require a weapon of sorts?
hence why i put weapon of equal power/strength. if you're physically weaker then you're kinda screwed, depending on how its seen by police.
Quote from: JTchinoySo arm/ leg breaking is fair play? win.
no, its not fair play. breaking someone's appendage could be construed by authorities/court of law as life-threatening; kicking/hitting/cracking a guy in the balls hard enough that the pain causes them to keel over and not get up is not life-threatening.
...
Seriously, don't post if you don't know, bad advice is worse than no advice.
Anyways. The basis of self defense is to retalliate in response to IMMEDIATE danger.
If someone breaks into your house, and you shoot them, that is fine. However... if you shoot them while they are FLEEING from you, it is not okay. This is the basic grounds of self-defense.
So. If someone tries to break into your car and you go out of your house with a baseball bat, that bat is there for self-defense, not to assault the guy.
If you go up to him and start pounding on him and he doesn't see you, or there was no signs of him going to attack you, you are at fault, that is assault.
If he sees you with the bat, and rushes at you, and you swing and knock him out. That is self-defense.
If he sees you and starts running and you chase him down and smash his face in, that is assault and attempted man-slaughter.
The house thing is tricky too, if he breaks into your house, and runs outside, and you kill him while he's on your lawn, that's murder on your part.
Again, the idea of self-defense is that YOU hurt him to PREVENT HIM from hurting you or someone else. There has to be a direct reason as to why you feared he would hurt you or someone else, and the keypoint in proving self-defense is that single point. Proving that he would have hurt you or someone else if you had not done what you just did.
And no, do not listen to otakuapprentice, as everything he had said is completely false. There is no "equals" or "strength levels" or any of that bull shit. The point is intent and reason, and only those factors. A guy can come at you with a stick, and if you shoot him, it's okay. If you PURPOSELY AIM FOR HIS FACE OR CHEST, then no, it isn't okay, because the intent obviously wasn't to prevent someone from getting hurt, it was to kill the guy. If a guy comes charges at you with a pen, and you pull out a baseball bat and smack him, you are in the right, because you were obviously only trying to prevent him from stabbing you with the pen, even if you gave the guy a concussion and he ends up in the hospital.
Kicking someone in the balls IS life threatening, more so than breaking a guys legs. What in god's hell are you speaking about? Damage to the groinal area can cause horrible internal bleedings, and can cause major permanant damage. Comparatively, getting your arm or leg broken will result in a few weeks in a cast and being back to normal.
ONCE MORE... IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT... DO NOT POST, as bad advice about such a subject is 10x worse than no advice.
I've been waiting for mikey to reply this whole time, hahahaha.
How'd I know mikey would have the info I needed? :)
So if anyone's coming at me I can do anything in my power to prevent them from harming me. Got it. :)
Yeah, that's why I said IF they rush at me because I know if they run then it's on me.
Quote from: JTchinoy on March 29, 2008, 03:36:01 PM
I've been waiting for mikey to reply this whole time, hahahaha.
How'd I know mikey would have the info I needed? :)
So if anyone's coming at me I can do anything in my power to prevent them from harming me. Got it. :)
Yeah, that's why I said IF they rush at me because I know if they run then it's on me.
The biggest point is PROVING that it was self-defense. You can prove that, you can do anything. If a guy is running away from you, you can chase after him smack him over the head and knock him out... if before he started running he said like "I'm gonna get a gun from my car and kill you". You can stop him to prevent that action. If there is no gun in his car, or weapon of any sort... then you're kinda screwed but you have to prove you DIDN'T try to hurt/kill him, only disable him because you were scared that he MIGHT have had a gun in his car do to him saying it.
Like I said, it's just proving what you were doing was only to prevent further harm. If he RUSHES at you, then yes, hitting him is okay. If he just slowly walks up to you, then hitting him isn't warranted as he was merely approaching you. You'll also get questions like "Why didn't you call the police".
In the situation you could have easilly ID'd him, you saw exactly what he looked like, was wearing etc. Why did you try to play hero and stop him rather than call the police? This is a very heavy weight on the side that it wasn't self-defense, because you PUT YOURSELF in the situation. They can use this as a levy for the fact you WANTED a confrontation. So you have to be careful from all ends.
Given my experience with car theft (which is reading the horror stories of many fellow honda owners), once a a 89-00 civic or integra is stolen, it won't be found until it's stripped for the most part in the bay area, if at all.
Although I wouldn't mind getting the insurance money to get a nicer car, it's still an inconvenience and a violation of me to just allow my car to be stolen once the attempt for theft has begun. I also don't know exactly how prompt cops would be to track my car down if I called as they were attempting the theft, so I just want to know what options there are in such situations.
Thanks for the replies.