FanimeCon 2020 Forums

FanimeCon Events and Discussionmentarianism => General Convention Discussion => Topic started by: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 09:46:36 PM

Title: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 09:46:36 PM
Or is it?

I actually had 3 different people from press talk to me about this as it was brought up at my panel (by a guy I couldn't understand).

The major question was "how do you feel about glomp me signs and the such being banned? Do you think cons are trying to kill fun for its attendees"?

A lot of people the past year have been complaining that conventions are trying to ruin the fun of the attendees by being stricter on its rules. To be honest, Fanime is one of the more lax'ed con when you compare with other cons banning signs completely, not allowing any kind of weapon or anything that remotely can be considered a weapon on the con floor.

Now the basis of this is that, attendees feel that their freedoms are being taken away to enjoy themselves, but what they don't realize(or attempt to even think about) is why conventions have had to put up rules and be more strict in enforcing them... Don't quote me on any of this as I may be slightly off(but I have a pretty basic grasp).

Convention centers are being harsher on the cons that are taking place there. Things like underaged drinking, sexual harassment, even sexual abuse/molestation cases have been springing up at conventions. There was an incident at fanime last year involving sexual harassment(and more) that was kept pretty under wraps. Numerous cases of attendees puking and passing out on convention floors from alcohol/drugs and the such, many of them underaged. Numerous cases of people passing out due to exhaustion, lack of food, and many other things.

People running away from home to attend conventions across country, with little to no money, no hotel room, and no way home.

Malicious attacks on conventions by attendees(HI ACEN!). Attendees harassing other attendees to extreme levels(blocking off entrances, taking up elevators and not leaving them, barging into hotel rooms).

Many of these seem like extreme cases, but they are a lot more common place than most think. I advocately faught to get "glomp me" signs banned, and my reasoning was that I've been harassed many times by people with these signs, and I've seen people disgusted, and even worse, hurt by people. Holding a sign is not an excuse to glomp someone else walking by.

Cons are cracking down harder, and it isn't to ruin fun. Fanime especially doesn't want to limit or restrict it's attendees (as staff argued with me quite about on the subject), but they did have to give in to some things...

TO PROTECT THE ATTENDEES.

Conventions cannot control everything the attendees do, and the rules that are made, usually, exist because something bad happened from the action that the rule prohibits. The rules do not limit people to an extreme, they're still free to have fun and enjoy themselves, they just need a little more basic understanding and self-control.

I went to a lot of Fanime meetings this year, and friends from other conventions talk to me all the time about the state of their conventions.

Glomp me signs are banned... so what? Doesn't mean you can't do it, just do it responsibly. A bunch of people ruined carrying signs for people, don't be one that ruins something else for others.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kazuko on May 29, 2008, 09:52:26 PM
Fer serious I agree with pyron on this, Cons cant controll everything and You rather be safe than sorry right? so when something is not allowed lets not BAWW about it but rather be glad since well you dont want to be on the stretcher or in a copcar right?
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Zee on May 29, 2008, 10:11:46 PM
I agree with you, Pyron.  Even with the signs banned and glomping not allowed without permission, a friend of mine was injured at the con due to an overzealous staff member glomping her at full running speed.  So yeah.  No more encouragement, please.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: weirderraindrop on May 29, 2008, 10:15:22 PM
Yea...those signs were kind of annoying as well after a while.  Nobody wants to pay .25 cents to glomp you dude...>_>

However, I remember many a time glomping someone who really just wanted some attention and a hug.

I love free hugs. :3

...not sure why I posted this... xD
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: edendreams on May 29, 2008, 10:19:33 PM
I as well agree. Rules are established for a reason. I talked with the sword dealer at the con who told me about why san diego con can't have any weapons. It's true that people who can't seem to behave themselves will ruin the fun of others by causing rules to be made and enforced, But in no way is that the fault of the con. Personally I've never hugged someone with a glomp me sign I love to hug but i don't feel the need to fly across the room with tackling force to do so... (unless it's to loktera XD then it's just funny).

If anything Fanime is the best controlled con (i haven't been to many though i am impressed by this one.)

ANyway ^-^ I'm all for making fun safe
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Nyxyin on May 29, 2008, 10:27:31 PM
The major question was "how do you feel about glomp me signs and the such being banned? Do you think cons are trying to kill fun for its attendees"?
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 10:38:13 PM
Damn those Fanimu-staffs trying to ruin my fun! I DO WHATEVA I WANT. >:[

SPINZAKUUUUU!!
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 29, 2008, 10:42:24 PM
Well, this is all well and good, but I think it would also be prudent to include a note that mutual agreement to glomp falls outside of the general "NO GLOMPING" policy? Consent! A ban on "GLOMP ME" signs is not the same thing as a ban on glomping, though the attitudes expressed herein this thread so far can easily be construed as to imply such. If there is mutual consent, just make sure you don't indirectly tackle other congoers!

(Also, code of conduct signs all around the convention was an awesome idea and should be made even easier to find next year. Say, on the reverse side of the cosplay group schedules?)
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: SOawesomeness on May 29, 2008, 10:46:05 PM
I had a guy walk up to me this year and spread his arms out for a hug... I thought that was fine... If someone glomped me without permission, I would have redirected that person to an SOS as soon as I could. o.0
I'm all for consent for physical-ness if it's within legal boundaries. ^^
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 10:46:27 PM
Well, this is all well and good, but I think it would also be prudent to include a note that mutual agreement to glomp falls outside of the general "NO GLOMPING" policy? Consent! A ban on "GLOMP ME" signs is not the same thing as a ban on glomping, though the attitudes expressed herein this thread so far can easily be construed as to imply such. If there is mutual consent, just make sure you don't indirectly tackle other congoers!

(Also, code of conduct signs all around the convention was an awesome idea and should be made even easier to find next year. Say, on the reverse side of the cosplay group schedules?)

Gee, I'm against unconsentual glomping and whatnot, but I hope no one was implying a ban on glomping altogether. Hopefully that the Fanime community doesn't go so far out of hand where staff is pushed to such extremes. A ban on glomping would make things very uncomfortable, as it'd pretty much sum up to restricting physical contact in general. A ban on signs is very much different, but as for everything else pertaining glomping and the like, the key solution is respect, e.g. asking before doing so.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 29, 2008, 10:53:16 PM
Well, this is all well and good, but I think it would also be prudent to include a note that mutual agreement to glomp falls outside of the general "NO GLOMPING" policy? Consent! A ban on "GLOMP ME" signs is not the same thing as a ban on glomping, though the attitudes expressed herein this thread so far can easily be construed as to imply such. If there is mutual consent, just make sure you don't indirectly tackle other congoers!

(Also, code of conduct signs all around the convention was an awesome idea and should be made even easier to find next year. Say, on the reverse side of the cosplay group schedules?)

Gee, I'm against unconsentual glomping and whatnot, but I hope no one was implying a ban on glomping altogether. Hopefully that the Fanime community doesn't go so far out of hand where staff is pushed to such extremes. A ban on glomping would make things very uncomfortable, as it'd pretty much sum up to restricting physical contact in general. A ban on signs is very much different, but as for everything else pertaining glomping and the like, the key solution is respect, e.g. asking before doing so.

Well, yes. I definitely hope things never go that far- I like it when I get glomped, personally, as it's not as if I've a particularly delicate build (countless consecutive generations of soldiers and farmers- we might be common, but we'll kick yer arse!), and friendly attention's always heartening (especially from girls. =D). But I figured that it'd be prudent to add a counternote to the general attitude expressed so far.

It's always good to express the full extent of an issue, isn't it? Getting the right message across to a crowd means expressing not just what's wrong, but what's right.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 10:54:47 PM
Well, this is all well and good, but I think it would also be prudent to include a note that mutual agreement to glomp falls outside of the general "NO GLOMPING" policy? Consent! A ban on "GLOMP ME" signs is not the same thing as a ban on glomping, though the attitudes expressed herein this thread so far can easily be construed as to imply such. If there is mutual consent, just make sure you don't indirectly tackle other congoers!

(Also, code of conduct signs all around the convention was an awesome idea and should be made even easier to find next year. Say, on the reverse side of the cosplay group schedules?)

Gee, I'm against unconsentual glomping and whatnot, but I hope no one was implying a ban on glomping altogether. Hopefully that the Fanime community doesn't go so far out of hand where staff is pushed to such extremes. A ban on glomping would make things very uncomfortable, as it'd pretty much sum up to restricting physical contact in general. A ban on signs is very much different, but as for everything else pertaining glomping and the like, the key solution is respect, e.g. asking before doing so.

Well, yes. I definitely hope things never go that far- I like it when I get glomped, personally, as it's not as if I've a particularly delicate build (countless consecutive generations of soldiers and farmers- we might be common, but we'll kick yer arse!), and friendly attention's always heartening (especially from girls. =D). But I figured that it'd be prudent to add a counternote to the general attitude expressed so far.

It's always good to express the full extent of an issue, isn't it? Getting the right message across to a crowd means expressing not just what's wrong, but what's right.

Yus. o/
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: edendreams on May 29, 2008, 10:56:31 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 10:57:25 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Tony on May 29, 2008, 10:58:38 PM
Bleh. Having this title makes responding very tricky.

Basically, Mikey's got it; we're not trying to ruin anyone's fun, but we also want to make sure the environment is safe.

Personally I think there are things going on that are stupid - and I've done some of them ;D - but I'm not going to make an issue about it unless there's a good reason to do so. That's kind of FanimeCon's culture.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 29, 2008, 10:59:26 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

...by Eris did I miss a lot of stuff this year.

No matter. Making up for it in 09, even if it means downing enough caffeine to kill a hippo.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: edendreams on May 29, 2008, 10:59:40 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

XD HAHAHAHA
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: heeroyuy135 on May 29, 2008, 11:06:17 PM
However, there are cons out there, especially ones in the Midwest and East Coast, that actually do allow airsoft weapons on the con floor. I've seen a ton of cosplays from like ACEN that have airosft weapons, the same weapons that would be banned from the likes of Fanime and Anime Expo. I did touch briefly on this before the con, and I would like to again.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 29, 2008, 11:09:33 PM
However, there are cons out there, especially ones in the Midwest and East Coast, that actually do allow airsoft weapons on the con floor. I've seen a ton of cosplays from like ACEN that have airosft weapons, the same weapons that would be banned from the likes of Fanime and Anime Expo. I did touch briefly on this before the con, and I would like to again.

Proper airsoft? You mean the sort that are indistinguishable to the casual observer from real guns, except for the orange tip?

I think there might be state laws that prevent the convention from allowing them, actually. Not completely sure, though, but this is California we're talking about.

There was a bill in the House that made it so that ammo manufacturers'd have to print individual serial numbers on each bullet casing. That's how insane we are about gun control- and I mean insane, given the absolute uselessness of such a bill.

But now you've got me ranting...
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kazuko on May 29, 2008, 11:11:57 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

XD HAHAHAHA
Seriously XD Jun has a way of saying hello if your a girl
she likes to grab mine many time
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 11:12:42 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

XD HAHAHAHA
Seriously XD Jun has a way of saying hello if your a girl
she likes to grab mine many time

But they're HUGE!
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kazuko on May 29, 2008, 11:15:06 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

XD HAHAHAHA
Seriously XD Jun has a way of saying hello if your a girl
she likes to grab mine many time

But they're HUGE!
XD YES YES I KNOW and yours are Small
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 11:15:41 PM
However, there are cons out there, especially ones in the Midwest and East Coast, that actually do allow airsoft weapons on the con floor. I've seen a ton of cosplays from like ACEN that have airosft weapons, the same weapons that would be banned from the likes of Fanime and Anime Expo. I did touch briefly on this before the con, and I would like to again.

Acen also banned anything having to do with 4chan/anonymous. They also banned ALL SIGNS unless they had to do with a costume.

Otakon banned guns unless it's obviously a prop with no moving parts. This includes water guns.

If an airsoft gun is fired at the con, be fairly certain that they'll be banned.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 29, 2008, 11:15:54 PM
Not just Jun. There were a group of girls in the Thursday prereg badge pickup line that absolutely wouldn't stop groping each other.

Every time I think I may start to have an inkling of an idea of what goes on in a girl's mind, I lose that grip. Then I remember that I'm in the same boat with most girls on that issue, and I stop trying to figure ye girls out.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 11:18:19 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

XD HAHAHAHA
Seriously XD Jun has a way of saying hello if your a girl
she likes to grab mine many time

But they're HUGE!
XD YES YES I KNOW and yours are Small

WTF. I HAET YOU!

;__________;

And yo, doesn't work with all girls. If they ain't comfortable wit it, it ain't coo. Like Mikey. He grabs dude's balls, but if they ain't coo wit it... well, it becomes kind of hilarious, but for the most part NOT COO. And uh... yo, if you think about it, it's like an intimate greeting, amirite. Like sayin', "Yo. I's so coo wit chu, I can do dis an' we be coo 'bout it, a'ight." so it's all coo.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: heeroyuy135 on May 29, 2008, 11:19:22 PM
That's what I thought about state law...
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kazuko on May 29, 2008, 11:20:38 PM
again i'm not bothered by hugging random people it's the whole forcefulness behind it sometimes. Lol

I do have to laugh about the sexual harassment claim XD DIDn't I get GRABBED upon introduction? Lol

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

XD HAHAHAHA
Seriously XD Jun has a way of saying hello if your a girl
she likes to grab mine many time

But they're HUGE!
XD YES YES I KNOW and yours are Small

WTF. I HAET YOU!

;__________;
You love me you know you dooooo ;3 you cant resist!!!! *fail heartsign* <3
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 29, 2008, 11:24:06 PM
Ladies, the quotespam. It makes the eyes hurt. ;_;
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Tenba on May 29, 2008, 11:26:04 PM
A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
They have always been banned by state law, not by FanimeCon.  Basically, the convention rules themselves haven't changed to be more strict in the last year or anything.  They've always been like this.  (I'd know since I dug up all the previous years' policies in order to write this year's.)
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 29, 2008, 11:27:07 PM
A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Then they have always been banned by state law, not by FanimeCon.  Basically, the convention rules themselves haven't changed to be more strict in the last year or anything.  They've always been like this.


But it wasn't enforced until now. That's the major difference.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Tenba on May 29, 2008, 11:29:12 PM
But it wasn't enforced until now. That's the major difference.
I wasn't out on the floor much.  Were they actually more enforced this year than previous years?  (I'd like to think my signs made a difference.)  ^_^;
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: quantbits on May 29, 2008, 11:33:50 PM
speaking of which.

I STILL got glomped 3 times as Hard Gay without permission.
I verbally voiced my unhappiness and they apologized and ran away...

at least there was no 200 pd fat guy picking me up in the air for 30 seconds this year.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Mister_E on May 29, 2008, 11:36:37 PM
It wasn't as bad for me this year, I just got a tap on the shoulder they held out their arms and I gave them like a quick 3 second hug.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 29, 2008, 11:37:35 PM
I had people glomp me, scream in my ear, and bruise me with Pok'eballs because they thought I was cosplaying as Rei Ayanami while I was cosplaying as Cirno. :|

...

BRUIS'D.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: SOawesomeness on May 29, 2008, 11:38:49 PM
I STILL got glomped 3 times as Hard Gay without permission.
OMG So it was you!
I was thinking it wasn't... o.0 Because you seemed so timid...
xDD
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Mister_E on May 29, 2008, 11:45:29 PM
I had people glomp me, scream in my ear, and bruise me with Pok'eballs because they thought I was cosplaying as Rei Ayanami while I was cosplaying as Cirno. :|

...

BRUIS'D.
Wait, what does Pok'emon have to do with EVA did they want to catch you? And didn't you sprain your ankle?
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kazuko on May 29, 2008, 11:47:27 PM
I had people glomp me, scream in my ear, and bruise me with Pok'eballs because they thought I was cosplaying as Rei Ayanami while I was cosplaying as Cirno. :|

...

BRUIS'D.

LOL for serious? pokeballs? err and Rei....how do they confuse that with Cirno D:< unless they have to be ignorant and assume that every short pale blue haired cosplay is rei

I knew it was cirno hands doown
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: quantbits on May 29, 2008, 11:48:44 PM
I STILL got glomped 3 times as Hard Gay without permission.
OMG So it was you!
I was thinking it wasn't... o.0 Because you seemed so timid...
xDD

if by "timid", you mean "a very nice professional photography attending to the cosplayer's needs"... sure. I'm "timid".

I like to work hard AND play hard. =P
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Steve.Young on May 29, 2008, 11:52:07 PM
But it wasn't enforced until now. That's the major difference.
I wasn't out on the floor much.  Were they actually more enforced this year than previous years?  (I'd like to think my signs made a difference.)  ^_^;


Yes, our SOS staff was nearly double of what we had last year =)
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: ThatBlueDinosaurGuy on May 29, 2008, 11:56:31 PM
I personally don't mind being glomped, hugged, or whatever, I'm all for it. Fanime is fun no matter what just as long as no one tries to pull a Man Faye I'm dandy.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Lacunacraft on May 30, 2008, 12:16:01 AM
I agree with Pyron completely on the glomping issue. pleas ask before you do it, I know I wouldn't do it without asking because I am six feet tall and roughly 240 pounds. I will maim someone if they are not prepared for it, especially if they are smaller than me.

As for the con ruining people's fun...Grow the fuck up people! You ruin the con by being stupid and that ruins the fun for other people at Fanimecon. Not everyone likes being glomped or taking part in other fandom activities. I have been going to Fanimecon for the past eight years and I can understand why the rules are being more clearly enforced. The convention is huge now and attendance is over 15,000 people now. This is a huge undertaking for an all volunteer organization and I deeply respect the staff for putting it on for us year after year.  They don't have to do this, but they do it because they want to do it. So at least respect the rules they set up for the con as they aren't restrictive at all and I have never had a problem with them.

P.S. Pyron, you remeber that random white guy who talked to you after the damn you internets panel saturday, well that is me.  I really hope damn you internets is back next year because it is probably one of the best panels at Fanimecon.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 30, 2008, 12:20:06 AM
I agree with Pyron completely on the glomping issue. pleas ask before you do it, I know I wouldn't do it without asking because I am six feet tall and roughly 240 pounds. I will maim someone if they are not prepared for it, especially if they are smaller than me.

As for the con ruining people's fun...Grow the fuck up people! You ruin the con by being stupid and that ruins the fun for other people at Fanimecon. Not everyone likes being glomped or taking part in other fandom activities. I have been going to Fanimecon for the past eight years and I can understand why the rules are being more clearly enforced. The convention is huge now and attendance is over 15,000 people now. This is a huge undertaking for an all volunteer organization and I deeply respect the staff for putting it on for us year after year.  They don't have to do this, but they do it because they want to do it. So at least respect the rules they set up for the con as they aren't restrictive at all and I have never had a problem with them.

P.S. Pyron, you remeber that random white guy who talked to you after the damn you internets panel saturday, well that is me.  I really hope damn you internets is back next year because it is probably one of the best panels at Fanimecon.

Lol, I don't think anyone disagreed with this in the entire thread. Everything else was just a joke. :P

Thanks for the support on the panel, though. Sorry we had to let you guys sit through that. o_0 Uh... After it ended, despite it sucking, we ended up getting a lot of support nonetheless, so it'll probably encourage a following year. Hope for the best.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Nyxyin on May 30, 2008, 12:36:23 AM
Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
"Glomps" have no commercial value.  Also, the legal definition of "solicitation" deals explicitly with crimes or sex or money.  Glomps aren't sex, they're not crimes, and a sign saying "glomp me" doesn't ask for money.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/solicitation-lawyers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitation
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Tenba on May 30, 2008, 12:41:02 AM
Yes, our SOS staff was nearly double of what we had last year =)
Awesome!
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Lacunacraft on May 30, 2008, 12:42:15 AM
I agree with Pyron completely on the glomping issue. pleas ask before you do it, I know I wouldn't do it without asking because I am six feet tall and roughly 240 pounds. I will maim someone if they are not prepared for it, especially if they are smaller than me.

As for the con ruining people's fun...Grow the fuck up people! You ruin the con by being stupid and that ruins the fun for other people at Fanimecon. Not everyone likes being glomped or taking part in other fandom activities. I have been going to Fanimecon for the past eight years and I can understand why the rules are being more clearly enforced. The convention is huge now and attendance is over 15,000 people now. This is a huge undertaking for an all volunteer organization and I deeply respect the staff for putting it on for us year after year.  They don't have to do this, but they do it because they want to do it. So at least respect the rules they set up for the con as they aren't restrictive at all and I have never had a problem with them.

P.S. Pyron, you remeber that random white guy who talked to you after the damn you internets panel saturday, well that is me.  I really hope damn you internets is back next year because it is probably one of the best panels at Fanimecon.

Lol, I don't think anyone disagreed with this in the entire thread. Everything else was just a joke. :P

Thanks for the support on the panel, though. Sorry we had to let you guys sit through that. o_0 Uh... After it ended, despite it sucking, we ended up getting a lot of support nonetheless, so it'll probably encourage a following year. Hope for the best.

I was actually talking to the people who may be reading this and nerd raging over it because you know they are out there. I am really new to the forums, so who were you at the panel? there was like ten people with pyron on stage. I do know you were one of the girls, but i can't remeber which one, which is sad becuse what you cosplayed as is right in your signature '-_-.
Actually It wasn't too bad sitting through it because the on the spot stuff was kinda funny for a bit especially the watermelon and fried chicken.  
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 30, 2008, 01:20:59 AM
Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
"Glomps" have no commercial value.  Also, the legal definition of "solicitation" deals explicitly with crimes or sex or money.  Glomps aren't sex, they're not crimes, and a sign saying "glomp me" doesn't ask for money.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/solicitation-lawyers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitation


Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.

I was actually talking to the people who may be reading this and nerd raging over it because you know they are out there. I am really new to the forums, so who were you at the panel? there was like ten people with pyron on stage. I do know you were one of the girls, but i can't remeber which one, which is sad becuse what you cosplayed as is right in your signature '-_-.
Actually It wasn't too bad sitting through it because the on the spot stuff was kinda funny for a bit especially the watermelon and fried chicken. 

Ah, yes. They can raaaage all they want-- there's quite the history of people arguing back and forth pertaining this. People within conventions are generally socially-inept outcasts, most of the time. When they see people acting stupid, lacking tact, and dropping all social graces, they join in and promote it as a sign of freedom. At first, in moderation, it was okay. Once it became a problem, though, most weren't really happy with people stepping in and saying, "No, that's wrong." But after many upon many threads on similar topics, more and more people started agreeing once they could relate or understand the logical reasons as to why such behavior should be looked down upon.

I was the person cosplaying as Cirno (blue dress, wig, white wings) a.k.a. "ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg". It was disappointing to see the panel fall apart like the way it did, especially in such an ironic fashion. I'm glad that people still managed to have fun nonetheless. To be very honest, both Pyron and I are touched that we're getting so much support in trying better the next year. A lot of things related to our personal life got too much in the way for us to be able to plan the panel properly to have improvised with adequate material to work with available. There were a lot of great plans for this year, but it's kind of tough running an internet panel without internet. And yes, our African-American friend indulging himself in his native cuisine is quite entertaining-- he lacked a certain violet-colored beverage, though.

Thanks for the support, tons. Hope to see you next year. =)
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: ININ on May 30, 2008, 10:42:49 AM
Pyron, kudos to your first post.  Well said.  There was almost no drama as I walked around the convention during the late night hours.  Fanime'07 was terrible.  There are better activies to do instead of running around bored wearing meaningless signs.  (Late night stage zero programming such as Mario 64 speed run was a great idea.)

Regarding glomping, I'm flexible.  If the person asks for permission, then glomp away.

Not just Jun. There were a group of girls in the Thursday prereg badge pickup line that absolutely wouldn't stop groping each other.

I wonder if one of those girls glomped me and grabbed my butt in the dealer's room on Saturday.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Lacunacraft on May 30, 2008, 01:15:58 PM
I agree that having late night live programming on stage zero also probably helped alieveate the problem of people doing stupid shit. Plus having the snack stations open later was a great idea because no one wants to walk around downtown san jose at night just to get something to drink besides water.

One thing I did wish for is to have the people yelling "YOU LOST THE GAME" to shut the fuck up. I mean, come on it was never that funny to begin with. 
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: FanFicGuru on May 30, 2008, 01:23:58 PM
To 1st post: QFT.

In addition, I wish that minors who were staying in hotel rooms had more supervision. On my floor there were at least a couple rooms with teenagers up pretty much all night making a ton of noise. I almost went out there to shut them up but some older guy did it for me.

Seriously...people need to behave in hotel rooms. They just make the rest of us look like morons.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: FinalShadows on May 30, 2008, 01:27:12 PM
Heh.. I never got that complaint. Then again my room was holding a yaoi/yuri marathon the last night :P
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: billgoku on May 30, 2008, 01:57:59 PM
I've never minded the glomping, just as long as they don't try to football tackle me when I'm not looking. lol That might hurt a lil bit.  ;D
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: justkitteh on May 30, 2008, 04:41:54 PM
I'm going to just throw this out there. There's a line between keeping the peace and forcing order.

Sometime early in the convention we were on our way out to the patio, near the Maid Cafe. My friend had some cognac in a snifter (specialty glass) left over form visiting a few rooms; when we entered the convention center a female staffer said he couldn't bring alcohol in. That's totally fair, she had every right to, and it's a good rule; he said he thought the glass was empty. So he finished that last couple drops, then even went so far at to rinse it out and dry it in the bathroom. He came out and met us... and then the woman turned up again.

She demanded that we break the glass in front of her even though it was empty and we showed it to her, that, I believe, is crossing the line. We explained that it was our glass from homesies and that it was expensive (Bacarat crystal no less) and that we would not be breaking it. Before she could go on, we walked past her, down stairs, and out to the street. Another staffer (higher up I guess) came out and asked if we were the ones drinking wine in the convention center; we explained it and showed him the glass and he literally laughed at her, saying he would have done more than just calmly walk away if it were his glass that she had demanded be broken.

This is my own personal story, but playing off some other ones... someone said they had been walking down the line to see how long it was, and staff shoved them and told them to get to the end. Keeping lines in control and organized is important, but no staff should ever lay a finger on an attendee unless absolutely necessary. And if that's the case, they should be calling con ops to call the police.

Many of you might not have had jobs, but even McDonalds teaches you that if someone is breaking rules it is NOT your responsibility to take any more action than notify the people who should.

Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 30, 2008, 04:54:10 PM
Or you could, yanno, demand that the staffer let you write down his/her badge info. If it works on uppity policemen, it works on mere staffers.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Steve.Young on May 30, 2008, 07:04:04 PM
I'm going to just throw this out there. There's a line between keeping the peace and forcing order.

Sometime early in the convention we were on our way out to the patio, near the Maid Cafe. My friend had some cognac in a snifter (specialty glass) left over form visiting a few rooms; when we entered the convention center a female staffer said he couldn't bring alcohol in. That's totally fair, she had every right to, and it's a good rule; he said he thought the glass was empty. So he finished that last couple drops, then even went so far at to rinse it out and dry it in the bathroom. He came out and met us... and then the woman turned up again.

She demanded that we break the glass in front of her even though it was empty and we showed it to her, that, I believe, is crossing the line. We explained that it was our glass from homesies and that it was expensive (Bacarat crystal no less) and that we would not be breaking it. Before she could go on, we walked past her, down stairs, and out to the street. Another staffer (higher up I guess) came out and asked if we were the ones drinking wine in the convention center; we explained it and showed him the glass and he literally laughed at her, saying he would have done more than just calmly walk away if it were his glass that she had demanded be broken.

This is my own personal story, but playing off some other ones... someone said they had been walking down the line to see how long it was, and staff shoved them and told them to get to the end. Keeping lines in control and organized is important, but no staff should ever lay a finger on an attendee unless absolutely necessary. And if that's the case, they should be calling con ops to call the police.

Many of you might not have had jobs, but even McDonalds teaches you that if someone is breaking rules it is NOT your responsibility to take any more action than notify the people who should.

Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.

I was there for this (I was one of the two guys that walked out with the second guy who talked to you). No he was not higher up on the chain, merely in a position to take care of the matter more than she could. She's the Vice Chair of the convention? I think. But he's the head of safety so, he took care of the issue I assume?

There are staffers out there who are not part of the safety crew. You guys have to realize this, we aren't all the same. =P

The person who runs the info desk are not the same staff who do line controls for events and dances.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: weirderraindrop on May 30, 2008, 07:12:34 PM
I personally don't mind being glomped, hugged, or whatever, I'm all for it. Fanime is fun no matter what just as long as no one tries to pull a Man Faye I'm dandy.

Man Faye...X_X
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: crazychichi on May 30, 2008, 07:58:40 PM
Now we're bringing up man faye?   :D This could get interesting, hehe.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: ewu on May 30, 2008, 08:01:56 PM
Remember: Pies (still) = BANNED

Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......

Also remember: If you are going to bleed, please bleed on the parts of the floor that are red......
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: SOawesomeness on May 30, 2008, 08:05:46 PM
Also remember: If you are going to bleed, please bleed on the parts of the floor that are red......
Actually, please feel free to bleed all over Eric. (:
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 30, 2008, 08:52:37 PM

Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.

I wonder who you are to state this. Unless you are con staff that made the decision, or part of the circle of conventions that discuss on the secret mailing list, and you were one of the original advocators, I don't know how you can claim that as fact over some of the people on this forum...

Anyways. You can put monetary value on a glomp, because it is a service. A service is a service... in which a monetary value can be attached to it(even if that monetary value is free). It'd be like soliciting for a car wash, or asking for donations in front of a store. It's solicitation because you are not associated with the organization, and you are offering/asking for service.

Sorry, but the law will agree with the business over the person holding the sign in this situation on what "solicitation" is... as does the lawyer I just asked to double check. You seemed to miss the over all point of the ban on the signs if you think it was merely to stop solicitation, and you clearly didn't read my first post.

But just to recap... people use the sign as an excuse to act unruly and it causes other problems, like fire hazards.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: VampireAlucard on May 30, 2008, 11:13:00 PM
Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.
I actually have a funny story involving being told by staff that I had to change my sign. The last day I bought a Cactuar plushie and decided to tape it to my badge and then tape a sign to my badge that said "Hug me, I grant wishes", so it looked like the sign was on the Cactuar. I came across a staff member who told me that I couldn't have "hug me" on the sign because it was solicitation. I told her "It's not on me, it's on the Cactuar", so she calls the main desk and tells them "we have a hug me sign but it's not on the person, it's on the cactus". One can only wonder what the main desk was wondering when she told them a cactus was wearing a "hug me" sign. I eventually had to change the sign, but she still wanted a hug after.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: rude32 on May 30, 2008, 11:19:50 PM
Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.
I actually have a funny story involving being told by staff that I had to change my sign. The last day I bought a Cactuar plushie and decided to tape it to my badge and then tape a sign to my badge that said "Hug me, I grant wishes", so it looked like the sign was on the Cactuar. I came across a staff member who told me that I couldn't have "hug me" on the sign because it was solicitation. I told her "It's not on me, it's on the Cactuar", so she calls the main desk and tells them "we have a hug me sign but it's not on the person, it's on the cactus". One can only wonder what the main desk was wondering when she told them a cactus was wearing a "hug me" sign. I eventually had to change the sign, but she still wanted a hug after.
You should have told her to hug a cactus.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 30, 2008, 11:22:46 PM
Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.
I actually have a funny story involving being told by staff that I had to change my sign. The last day I bought a Cactuar plushie and decided to tape it to my badge and then tape a sign to my badge that said "Hug me, I grant wishes", so it looked like the sign was on the Cactuar. I came across a staff member who told me that I couldn't have "hug me" on the sign because it was solicitation. I told her "It's not on me, it's on the Cactuar", so she calls the main desk and tells them "we have a hug me sign but it's not on the person, it's on the cactus". One can only wonder what the main desk was wondering when she told them a cactus was wearing a "hug me" sign. I eventually had to change the sign, but she still wanted a hug after.

See, it's things like this that piss off staff members. You obviously knew that the con didn't allow the signs, so what did you do? Try to go around the rules(in a very unwitty way). Not to prove a point or anything, not to try an acomplish anything, just to be a douche.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: VampireAlucard on May 30, 2008, 11:26:31 PM
Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.
I actually have a funny story involving being told by staff that I had to change my sign. The last day I bought a Cactuar plushie and decided to tape it to my badge and then tape a sign to my badge that said "Hug me, I grant wishes", so it looked like the sign was on the Cactuar. I came across a staff member who told me that I couldn't have "hug me" on the sign because it was solicitation. I told her "It's not on me, it's on the Cactuar", so she calls the main desk and tells them "we have a hug me sign but it's not on the person, it's on the cactus". One can only wonder what the main desk was wondering when she told them a cactus was wearing a "hug me" sign. I eventually had to change the sign, but she still wanted a hug after.

See, it's things like this that piss off staff members. You obviously knew that the con didn't allow the signs, so what did you do? Try to go around the rules(in a very unwitty way). Not to prove a point or anything, not to try an acomplish anything, just to be a douche.

Actually that was my first time at Fanime. I wasn't trying to be a douche, the sign was on the Cactuar. If I wanted to put a "hug me" sign on myself I would've from the beginning of Fanime. When she told me to change it, I did so with no problems. If I really wanted to be a douche I could've made a huge deal about it, but I didn't. Now I know what not to do when I go next year.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 30, 2008, 11:32:47 PM
Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.
I actually have a funny story involving being told by staff that I had to change my sign. The last day I bought a Cactuar plushie and decided to tape it to my badge and then tape a sign to my badge that said "Hug me, I grant wishes", so it looked like the sign was on the Cactuar. I came across a staff member who told me that I couldn't have "hug me" on the sign because it was solicitation. I told her "It's not on me, it's on the Cactuar", so she calls the main desk and tells them "we have a hug me sign but it's not on the person, it's on the cactus". One can only wonder what the main desk was wondering when she told them a cactus was wearing a "hug me" sign. I eventually had to change the sign, but she still wanted a hug after.

See, it's things like this that piss off staff members. You obviously knew that the con didn't allow the signs, so what did you do? Try to go around the rules(in a very unwitty way). Not to prove a point or anything, not to try an acomplish anything, just to be a douche.

Mm, I dunno. A "hug me" sign on a cactus has a certain level of satire to it.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: heeroyuy135 on May 30, 2008, 11:58:14 PM
Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......
So what's the difference between that and cosplayers who had their AKs peacebonded by the SOS staff?
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 31, 2008, 12:03:03 AM
Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......
So what's the difference between that and cosplayers who had their AKs peacebonded by the SOS staff?

Not a whole lot, except that staffers don't necessarily have a monolithic idea on what's acceptable and not acceptable.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Lacunacraft on May 31, 2008, 12:07:31 AM
I don't think this debate will ever truly end, but I think we also have to take into account the average age of Fanimecon's attendees. I have noticed that there is a lot more high school age and below kids coming to Fanimecon and they genrally aren't as mature as the older attendees.

I also believe that as a whole the Anime Fandom's average fan age has gone down as anime and manga have become more easily accessible. You can get manga in almost any bookstore and all major electronics stores carry at least some anime dvds. Hell, look at how huge the manga section is at Borders and Barnes and Nobles.  Then you also have to take into account the even easier access to content online via torrents, youtube, crunchy roll,  etc.

As the fans get younger, you start running into the "rebelious" teens that always believe the "man" is out to get them, even though they are just trying to make sure they don't hurt themselves. Sure Fanimceon will still mostly be an event that draws really hardcore fans, but you will always have the casual fans that come for a day and may not really care that what they are doing is hurting the con experince for others.

I am not saying that all young fans behave that way, hell I am only nineteen myself. In general, I beleieve having a fanbase that is getting younger is a good thing because that means more people are getting into it at a younger age and it generally is seen as a sign of growth in the fandom.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: heeroyuy135 on May 31, 2008, 12:42:37 AM
Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......
So what's the difference between that and cosplayers who had their AKs peacebonded by the SOS staff?

Not a whole lot, except that staffers don't necessarily have a monolithic idea on what's acceptable and not acceptable.
Some of the staff told me they were experts and they knew the difference between airsoft and a toy gun...um...
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Steve.Young on May 31, 2008, 12:45:37 AM
Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......
So what's the difference between that and cosplayers who had their AKs peacebonded by the SOS staff?

Not a whole lot, except that staffers don't necessarily have a monolithic idea on what's acceptable and not acceptable.
Some of the staff told me they were experts and they knew the difference between airsoft and a toy gun...um...

We had a Cop in the SOS room at one point talking to us, and some people came in and wanted their guns peace bonded. We looked at the cop, asked "If you were in a dim/dark area and saw this about 20 feet away, what would happen?"

For some of the weapons that came through, he basically told us if he would draw his gun or not. I thought that was a neat thing to have, a cop nearby.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Ayanami Rei First Child on May 31, 2008, 01:08:39 AM
While I can understand stuff about glomp me signs....I had a friend, many of whom you have seen around. He goes around in a white t-shirt with the words "Hug Me" on it. Now because he wrote on it with a marker, instead of oh say...BUYING ONE from the dealer's room with a "Hug Me Logo" thing...he was unable to have it. I mean this guy gets over 600 hugs, and I have NEVER seen him bother ANYONE. I believe that is when you start taking things a bit too far. Hell last year I had my Ryo-Ohki plush holding up a hug sign, and nobody bothered me. There was maybe a few times people didn't want hugs, and I respected that. I told a Staff member later, and he never even told me that doing such a thing was against the rules.

I saw a lot less freely given hugs, as well as glomps. I can understand especially with glomps, but c'mon. Have a little consideration for the people who do.

I also find it reprehensible that just because you have to have an official "Hug Me" T-shirt/Logo in order to wear a Hug Me t-shirt..that's just GREEDY and MEAN
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 31, 2008, 08:22:37 AM
While I can understand stuff about glomp me signs....I had a friend, many of whom you have seen around. He goes around in a white t-shirt with the words "Hug Me" on it. Now because he wrote on it with a marker, instead of oh say...BUYING ONE from the dealer's room with a "Hug Me Logo" thing...he was unable to have it. I mean this guy gets over 600 hugs, and I have NEVER seen him bother ANYONE. I believe that is when you start taking things a bit too far. Hell last year I had my Ryo-Ohki plush holding up a hug sign, and nobody bothered me. There was maybe a few times people didn't want hugs, and I respected that. I told a Staff member later, and he never even told me that doing such a thing was against the rules.

I saw a lot less freely given hugs, as well as glomps. I can understand especially with glomps, but c'mon. Have a little consideration for the people who do.

I also find it reprehensible that just because you have to have an official "Hug Me" T-shirt/Logo in order to wear a Hug Me t-shirt..that's just GREEDY and MEAN

This was actually covered at the meeting. This actually applies directly to my first post in this thread. It's not taking things too far. Idiots ruined it for the people that are respectable about it... it's as simple as that. I've been going to cons for over a decade. Signs didn't start  up until around 2000-2001. I had no problem with them to be honest. Sure I thought the people carrying them around were quite pathetic, but that was it, no actual qualm. Now fast forward 4 years... After being hugged randomly dozens of times by people I did not know, and was rather repulsed by (their smell, their looks, and more)... Having guys follow my girlfriend around for about 10 minutes with a sign shoved in their face that says "HUG ME!" or something to that extent, having to wait 10 minutes to get through a hallway because someone with a sign gathered 20 people for a group hug in the center of a hallway, I realized it was an issue beyond just "letting people have fun".

The rule logically makes sense, and prevents a lot of things from happening to people that don't want it happening to them. There is no reason you can't hug people, there's no reason you can't glomp people, you just can't hold up a sign advertizing/soliciting it. Not to sound like an old jaded man, but why would you give out hugs to complete random strangers that you do not know, just because they're holding a sign? If you were walking around on the street and a guy was holding a "hug me" sign... would you hug him? Frankly, a con isn't much different, you can't really trust people just because they "LOLOLOL LIKE ANIMU".

Anyways, more things about my past you didn't need to know. I used to take people's wallets at UCLA just for fun. I'd promptly give it back to them and I did clear it with campus police as "a training excersize for a class". It was experimental theory about people and their awareness.

You guys don't realize how easy it is to steal from someone you're hugging. You apply pressure to their hip, and you can easilly steal a guys wallet without him realizing it, since (if you have any kind of dexterity at all) the feeling of his wallet being removed from the back pocket is exactly the same as the pressure from the sides of their waist.

Hmmm... maybe I should do this at fanime.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: ewu on May 31, 2008, 09:22:28 AM
stealing is illegal, signs are against our code of conduct

Police enforce the former, SOS enforce the latter
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: AMKestrel on May 31, 2008, 12:57:08 PM
Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
"Glomps" have no commercial value.  Also, the legal definition of "solicitation" deals explicitly with crimes or sex or money.  Glomps aren't sex, they're not crimes, and a sign saying "glomp me" doesn't ask for money.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/solicitation-lawyers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitation


However, per section 647.6(a) of the California Penal Code, if you attempt to glomp someone under the age of 18 (even unsuccessfully), and they find the attempt to be annoying, you may face a fine of up to $5000 and up to a year in prison:
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/647.6.html

It doesn't have to be related to sex or money to be a crime.  With SJPD on site, you attempt glomps at your own risk.  ^_^;

K.

Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: heeroyuy135 on May 31, 2008, 01:13:29 PM
Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......
So what's the difference between that and cosplayers who had their AKs peacebonded by the SOS staff?

Not a whole lot, except that staffers don't necessarily have a monolithic idea on what's acceptable and not acceptable.
Some of the staff told me they were experts and they knew the difference between airsoft and a toy gun...um...

We had a Cop in the SOS room at one point talking to us, and some people came in and wanted their guns peace bonded. We looked at the cop, asked "If you were in a dim/dark area and saw this about 20 feet away, what would happen?"

For some of the weapons that came through, he basically told us if he would draw his gun or not. I thought that was a neat thing to have, a cop nearby.
Always helpful.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: justkitteh on May 31, 2008, 01:41:06 PM

Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.

I wonder who you are to state this. Unless you are con staff that made the decision, or part of the circle of conventions that discuss on the secret mailing list, and you were one of the original advocators, I don't know how you can claim that as fact over some of the people on this forum...

Anyways. You can put monetary value on a glomp, because it is a service. A service is a service... in which a monetary value can be attached to it(even if that monetary value is free). It'd be like soliciting for a car wash, or asking for donations in front of a store. It's solicitation because you are not associated with the organization, and you are offering/asking for service.

Sorry, but the law will agree with the business over the person holding the sign in this situation on what "solicitation" is... as does the lawyer I just asked to double check. You seemed to miss the over all point of the ban on the signs if you think it was merely to stop solicitation, and you clearly didn't read my first post.

But just to recap... people use the sign as an excuse to act unruly and it causes other problems, like fire hazards.
I was talking more about the "I'll make out with your for $1" signs. ;) I don't think many people would say that hugging, no matter how violent it is, is prostitution... However the unruliness of glomping and the ridiculous things it leads to? One might say glomping is a gateway drug to prostitution *humor*.

Oh, and that's what I was told once upon a time my the higher ups at Fanime... perhaps they weren't the highest ups, or maybe they were just messing around.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Ayanami Rei First Child on May 31, 2008, 02:39:25 PM
Then why not ban the "Hug Me" t-shirts sold at the dealer's room from being worn at the convention as well? I mean after all they are BOTH trying to solicit people for hugs, except one is made by a store, and one is made by hand. I mean they are both advertising the want of hugs from random people, so I think that STILL shows GREED.

Besides a t-shirt is a t-shirts, NOT a sign. It shouldn't make a difference if the message is written by hand, or pressed on as a logo. To differentiate between the two and to favor the kind that costs over $10...that is WRONG.

I may not agree with the banning of signs, but I can understand it.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 31, 2008, 02:56:00 PM
Because a T-Shirt that is purchased OBVIOUSLY means whatever is written on the T-shirt is exactly how the person wearing the shirt feels and wants to happen correct? Then anyone wearing a shirt from Anchor Blue or the such could be sued for sexual harasssment or a number of anythings. The fact that the person willfully created the t-shirt is very little different than creating a sign and is imposing the action and wanting the action to happen. They're very different instances.

It'd be like... okay. Compare someone with a shirt that says I'm with stupid pointing to the right. And you are standing to their right. Compared to a person holding a sign that says that, and standing next to you. Now if the person hand wrote the shirt. It may not have the same intensity, but it still carries much more weight than someone with a screened t-shirt that says it.

It's basically the mentallity of the person and the reasoning.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Ayanami Rei First Child on May 31, 2008, 03:40:56 PM
Your reasoning makes them both guilty of the same crime, but that the Logo is okay, because it's less...severe or whatever. They are BOTH solicitation, but apparently hand-writing your solicitation, is evil, but having it as a Logo is okay, because it's not as blatant or something.

That honestly doesn't make you all seem any less evil. ^^; It just made it sound worse. <.<;

I'm not trying to be a jackass, but at the other hand, if I'm being banned from doing something I want to understand why it's for my benefit. So far with the t-shirt it isn't happening...
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 31, 2008, 03:49:00 PM
Your reasoning makes them both guilty of the same crime, but that the Logo is okay, because it's less...severe or whatever. They are BOTH solicitation, but apparently hand-writing your solicitation, is evil, but having it as a Logo is okay, because it's not as blatant or something.

That honestly doesn't make you all seem any less evil. ^^; It just made it sound worse. <.<;

I'm not trying to be a jackass, but at the other hand, if I'm being banned from doing something I want to understand why it's for my benefit. So far with the t-shirt it isn't happening...

You totally misread what I said. A T-Shirt is a piece of clothing, or apparel. It has no actual bearing on the wearer, how he thinks, how he feels, or anything like that.  However, a HANDMADE shirt means that he put in the effort to display something that HE WANTED displayed.  Otherwise people would be hit for sexual harassment or for impersonating staff/police etc. Wearing a T-shirt does not mean anything... writing a message on a t-shirt does.

Here's a better example... If I wear a "Kiss me I'm Irish" shirt, no one will take it seriously, run up to me and kiss me. Because it's obviously just a shirt I'm wearing, and it's not like I want/expect people to do that just because I am wearing that shirt. However... if I carry around a sign that says it... Then I AM soliciting because I clearly want people to do it, and have made it apparent I want people to do it by advertising. The same thing with MAKING your own shirt. It's clearly advertising it because you created the shirt with that sole purpose. Purchasing a shirt does not carry that same connotation. People can USE it in that sense, but for the most part, it's still viewed and carried very differently.

Again, refer back to the "kiss me I'm Irish shirt". People might try and use it in that way, but it won't be seen as solicitation or anything, more like an idiot pointing to his shirt.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Pika1979 on May 31, 2008, 04:57:12 PM
Quote
Not to sound like an old jaded man, but why would you give out hugs to complete random strangers that you do not know, just because they're holding a sign? If you were walking around on the street and a guy was holding a "hug me" sign... would you hug him? Frankly, a con isn't much different, you can't really trust people just because they "LOLOLOL LIKE ANIMU".

Well First off I feel that people like giving hugs to people who cosplay as their favorite person. Kinda like little kids at Disney Land.
Second there has been a whole thing about this all ready. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 It took a petition for free hugs to be OK.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Jun-Watarase on May 31, 2008, 05:18:48 PM
Quote
Not to sound like an old jaded man, but why would you give out hugs to complete random strangers that you do not know, just because they're holding a sign? If you were walking around on the street and a guy was holding a "hug me" sign... would you hug him? Frankly, a con isn't much different, you can't really trust people just because they "LOLOLOL LIKE ANIMU".

Well First off I feel that people like giving hugs to people who cosplay as their favorite person. Kinda like little kids at Disney Land.
Second there has been a whole thing about this all ready. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 It took a petition for free hugs to be OK.

Pffft, come on. You did NOT just compare cosplaying to being a mascot at Disneyland. For one thing, cosplayers generally cosplay wearing carefully constructed costumes to express their love for the character, aesthetically. Parts of their costumes may be delicate, that would easily be damaged if someone impacted them with a hug. Mascots a Disneyland are there to be MASCOTS, to provide enjoyment to the amusement parks' patrons and letting kids jump all over them and all that crap. Cosplayers don't serve entertainment the way mascots do.

No one implied that hugs aren't okay, but no one should get upset when the people they're asking says no. If I were on the street with that guy in that bawwwtastic video you just posted, I don't mind giving him a hug. I'm not losing anything from it, he might be gaining for it-- who cares. But people make it a problem at conventions, whereas they'd go to such extreme lengths as to follow people around and harass them to get a hug. Last year, there was a guy holding a "Glomp me" sign who FOLLOWED ME TO THE BATHROOM to get a hug out of me. No, just no.

I would like to think that most people our age would have the tact as to not go crazy when they see someone cosplaying a character they like, so much as to run up and glomp them without warning or permission, but it's been proven that many people find it okay to be below that. There's no harm in any of this is all of them asked and respected people's space. Without that, they're a potential risk to said cosplayers falling to injury or damage to their cosplays that they spend time, money, and effort making.

This year, I cosplayed as a character that somehow closely resembled Rei Ayanami to certain Eva fans. I was glomped, tackled, screamed at, hugged from behind (while wearing wings) and I even had people hit me with pokeballs. Seriously, wtf? I'd pass by convention halls, tired from work, having people stand in my way and ask "Hey!!! CAN I GET A HUG!? =D!!" and if I said "No, it's kind of hard to hug people with my wings on." I'd get pouty faces, people asking me to try, and even ask if I could take my wings off. My wings were attached with strong wire latched onto a steel-plated harness under my clothing. I'm not going to go through the effort of taking off my harness to hug someone I don't even know. But if I were under the circumstances where I actually felt like I didn't mind hugging someone, I couldn't care less. It's just a hug. But too many people push it further than just that.

So it isn't the hugs themselves people are against. It's the stupid idiotic behavior people have making it a problem. Have some tact, some respect, and a little more of that common sense-- then, most scenarios turn out fine.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: DivineChaos on May 31, 2008, 07:08:08 PM
Hm, I was wondering why there were so few "Glomp Me!" signs being worn by people.  Just out of curiosity, and because I didn't get to witness it firsthand, did any of the staff ask for the removal of such signs when they came across them?  Because if they did, I didn't notice at all; to me, it just seemed like everyone had just agreed to not wear the signs to the con. 

And here I was about to thank everyone for being mature enough to all decide not to bring signs. 

Kiddingbut not really =P
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on May 31, 2008, 07:43:38 PM
Your reasoning makes them both guilty of the same crime, but that the Logo is okay, because it's less...severe or whatever. They are BOTH solicitation, but apparently hand-writing your solicitation, is evil, but having it as a Logo is okay, because it's not as blatant or something.

That honestly doesn't make you all seem any less evil. ^^; It just made it sound worse. <.<;

I'm not trying to be a jackass, but at the other hand, if I'm being banned from doing something I want to understand why it's for my benefit. So far with the t-shirt it isn't happening...

You totally misread what I said. A T-Shirt is a piece of clothing, or apparel. It has no actual bearing on the wearer, how he thinks, how he feels, or anything like that.  However, a HANDMADE shirt means that he put in the effort to display something that HE WANTED displayed.  Otherwise people would be hit for sexual harassment or for impersonating staff/police etc. Wearing a T-shirt does not mean anything... writing a message on a t-shirt does.

Here's a better example... If I wear a "Kiss me I'm Irish" shirt, no one will take it seriously, run up to me and kiss me. Because it's obviously just a shirt I'm wearing, and it's not like I want/expect people to do that just because I am wearing that shirt. However... if I carry around a sign that says it... Then I AM soliciting because I clearly want people to do it, and have made it apparent I want people to do it by advertising. The same thing with MAKING your own shirt. It's clearly advertising it because you created the shirt with that sole purpose. Purchasing a shirt does not carry that same connotation. People can USE it in that sense, but for the most part, it's still viewed and carried very differently.

Again, refer back to the "kiss me I'm Irish shirt". People might try and use it in that way, but it won't be seen as solicitation or anything, more like an idiot pointing to his shirt.

Too presumptive, Pyron. The first immediate problem is that a handmade shirt's message does not carry any more weight than that of a commercially manufactured shirt- in both cases, the wearer is clearly aware of the message printed, and in the case of the homemade shirt, there is no guarantee that it wasn't, say, a present from an acquaintance. The message on the shirt would therefore not necessarily have been made by the user.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on May 31, 2008, 09:01:57 PM

Too presumptive, Pyron. The first immediate problem is that a handmade shirt's message does not carry any more weight than that of a commercially manufactured shirt- in both cases, the wearer is clearly aware of the message printed, and in the case of the homemade shirt, there is no guarantee that it wasn't, say, a present from an acquaintance. The message on the shirt would therefore not necessarily have been made by the user.

In a court case disputing actualities of evidence... yes... In the real world of logic and basic understandings and assumptions... no.

"Here's a cookie I baked for you" "Here's a cookie I bought from starbucks". Which one displays more effort and meaning behind it?

According to a court of law, they are equal because the gift was given and the intention is provided in both. In real world mechanics, taking the effort and time to create something has more bearing.

If it was a gift, that's a grey area... but frankly... who in god damned hell is going to write "GLOMP ME" on a t-shirt and be like "HERE MAN I MADE THIS FOR YOU". It's just stupid in so many different ways.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: edendreams on May 31, 2008, 09:32:38 PM
It all boils down to respect for other people. Honestly people are going to have differences opinions on the subject but when you really think of the benefits to glomp me signs... there isn't any. There's nothing productive from them and they cause problems.

I never hugged someone at the con without my arms out inviting. I let that person chose if they wanted to receive it. That is how it should be conducted!  I mena i do understand the point about the mascots of disneyland because they have security that protect against improper conduct but it's a convention of regular people who probably can't have security follow them around to protect their costumes. So it has to come down to be respectful of others and things they made.

I hope i made sense...
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: weirderraindrop on May 31, 2008, 10:02:25 PM
Perfect Example...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=0_9S1GgLgPE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=0_9S1GgLgPE)
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on June 01, 2008, 05:45:23 PM

Too presumptive, Pyron. The first immediate problem is that a handmade shirt's message does not carry any more weight than that of a commercially manufactured shirt- in both cases, the wearer is clearly aware of the message printed, and in the case of the homemade shirt, there is no guarantee that it wasn't, say, a present from an acquaintance. The message on the shirt would therefore not necessarily have been made by the user.

In a court case disputing actualities of evidence... yes... In the real world of logic and basic understandings and assumptions... no.

"Here's a cookie I baked for you" "Here's a cookie I bought from starbucks". Which one displays more effort and meaning behind it?

According to a court of law, they are equal because the gift was given and the intention is provided in both. In real world mechanics, taking the effort and time to create something has more bearing.

If it was a gift, that's a grey area... but frankly... who in god damned hell is going to write "GLOMP ME" on a t-shirt and be like "HERE MAN I MADE THIS FOR YOU". It's just stupid in so many different ways.

A cookie given is a cookie given. There's still a similar message being carried across in the delivery alone. The intensity of it is debatable at any rate- especially given how much starbucks cookies cost, and especially given the quality of the some of the so-called home-made cookies I've had the misfortune to ingest.

Besides, we are talking the legal ramifications concerning hug/glomp me signs, no? Your earlier argument pretty much does hinge on the effective difference between a store-bought "hug me" and homemade "hug me" sign in terms of, I believe, the convention's accountability. It still says "hug me," thus the so-called "real world of logic and basic understandings and assumptions" would still conclude it to be an open invitation towards physical contact. You'd need a court case disputing the actualities of evidence to argue otherwise.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on June 01, 2008, 06:25:36 PM
Not really, different people were arguing different points. I was addressing the points seperately.

One was about the defenition of solicitation, one was about the cons reasoning and merit/weight of different kinds of things.

The staff does follow the law, but not all rules are based solely on the legal ramifications and status. A lot of it is done within reason.

Again, if what you say were true, if I wore a shirt with something along the lines of picking up a girl... I could be sued for sexual harassment. The shirt makes an implication of sexual activity, and a girl sees the shirt. By your logical reasoning I am making an advance towards that girl because of the shirt I am wearing. The major difference is that, I am not wearing that shirt with that purpose. However someone putting in the effort to create that same shirt by hand, would have it. The reasons being is that they took the effort to display that message exactly how they wanted it to be displayed.

We can further push this by examining the environment in which things are taken place.

End of it is... it's the cons rules and they will judge how they seem fit. We all understand the basis of the rules, instead of bitching and whining about "ways to side step the rules" or "trying to find out ways to bypass rules yourself"... just, I dunno, TRY FOLLOWING THEM?
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Kaura117 on June 01, 2008, 07:36:26 PM
But as the post you first replied to (http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,10048.msg257846.html#msg257846) showed, the rules themselves aren't necessarily cut-and-dried affairs, nor do they always make sense. In fact, when there appears to be some arguably unethical commercial interest involved, it's only reasonable to expect some resentment.

It's in the best interest for both the convention staff and congoers to come to a written consensus on the rules- it's not in the best interest of either party to simply expect the others to follow a vague or even unwritten agreement, especially if the issue at hand as legal repercussions.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on June 01, 2008, 07:58:57 PM
They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Lacunacraft on June 01, 2008, 09:35:02 PM
They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?

There is nothing complicated at all about this. It is just that people will always find ways of bending the rules and creating technicalities that allow them to continue to do what they want to do. I wish it was possible to come to some kind of consensus, but that would require polling everyone at fanimecon and that is not possible.

As other have said, the rules sometimes aren't exactly enforced as strictly as they should be and there is wiggle room sometimes. I think it is partially on the staff to come up with truly concrete rules about what is and isn't allowed. I know they already exist, but the staff sometimes let things slide and the volunteers sometimes don't know the rules exactly. so, you can't really rely on them too much because they aren't given enough time to really memorize and know the rules.

I honestly don't see this debate ever really ending as it all depends on people's point of view.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Steve.Young on June 01, 2008, 10:48:35 PM
Good luck getting enough staff to catch everything that goes on at the con.

It's like saying, here's a police force of 50 people (Not all of them work at the same time, we have shifts, base people, etc), go find all the evildoers in a crowded area of 20,000 people.

Not enough staff? Hi volunteers, do this. "UHM?"...says the confused volunteer.

It's not exactly rocket science to figure out, that rules sometimes are hard to enforce given that we are all volunteers (Staff don't get paid) and it's a volunteer based organization where we try to do everything that everyone expects but don't get any credit for things that go right, only things that go wrong.

Shit happens, get over it. Stop abusing things, and you won't have rules made in the first place. You abuse it, you lose it. Some people really just ruin it for the rest of the people.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 02:04:39 AM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Are we seriously back on this again? I had a glomp sign on and nothing happened to me (my friend on the other hand stopped by one of the staff which wasn't right) Call it solicitation if you want. You don't have glomp the person if you don't want to. It's not like the sign says glomp me or else. That's why I had my sign. So people knew they had permission to glomp me.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on June 02, 2008, 02:20:09 AM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Are we seriously back on this again? I had a glomp sign on and nothing happened to me (my friend on the other hand stopped by one of the staff which wasn't right) Call it solicitation if you want. You don't have glomp the person if you don't want to. It's not like the sign says glomp me or else. That's why I had my sign. So people knew they had permission to glomp me.

Or in other words... "Hi... I'm stupid and I don't understand words or what they mean. So I will say what I think they mean despite being completely wrong"

You don't have to do what a solicitor asks... it doesn't change that it's solicitation. "LOLOLOL Prostitutes don't FORCE YOU to sleep with them, so what they are doing is okay".
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 02:28:29 AM
What are they talking about?  I didn't see anything at all about glomp signs and such being banned at Fanime?  At least, they're no more banned this year than previous years.  I saw "no running" in the code of conduct thing, which prevents people from glomping, and there's still "no [disorderly conduct such as] soliciting", but I'm pretty sure I've seen both those rules in previous years.  As far as I can tell, there is nothing new in the rules.  I think the only difference is that the code of conduct appeared on signs around the convention rather than just being in the program book.


For those that don't understand.

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
Are we seriously back on this again? I had a glomp sign on and nothing happened to me (my friend on the other hand stopped by one of the staff which wasn't right) Call it solicitation if you want. You don't have glomp the person if you don't want to. It's not like the sign says glomp me or else. That's why I had my sign. So people knew they had permission to glomp me.

Or in other words... "Hi... I'm stupid and I don't understand words or what they mean. So I will say what I think they mean despite being completely wrong"

You don't have to do what a solicitor asks... it doesn't change that it's solicitation. "LOLOLOL Prostitutes don't FORCE YOU to sleep with them, so what they are doing is okay".
Point being. You can get rid of the signs but you can get rid of glomping. It's still going to take place no matter how much you rant about it.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on June 02, 2008, 03:05:51 AM
Dumbass... when did I ever say I wanted to get rid of it completely? When did I ever state that it would?

THank you... now please stop making such retarded posts.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 03:17:24 AM
Ok I'll be the bigger man and stop. But to answer your question it you get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. One random incident happens and BOOM it's banned completely. Call me stupid if you want to. I could care less. I say the signs will help people know who wants to be glomped. I'll leave the topic alone. I know I can at least.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Xeluu on June 02, 2008, 03:43:40 AM
...get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. ...
Actually, I found this year there was less random glomping. >_> Dunno if that's to be attributed to the lack of signs or not, but I personally found it better this year.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 03:51:51 AM
...get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. ...
Actually, I found this year there was less random glomping. >_> Dunno if that's to be attributed to the lack of signs or not, but I personally found it better this year.
Probably because people are afraid of someone calling the cops on them.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Xeluu on June 02, 2008, 03:57:55 AM
...get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. ...
Actually, I found this year there was less random glomping. >_> Dunno if that's to be attributed to the lack of signs or not, but I personally found it better this year.
Probably because people are afraid of someone calling the cops on them.
Perhaps. I dunno why, don't think anyone can say exactly WHY either. Just stating what I saw. Perhaps the lack of the signs kept things a bit calmer? I dunno.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 04:02:55 AM
...get rid of the signs then people glomp blindly. ...
Actually, I found this year there was less random glomping. >_> Dunno if that's to be attributed to the lack of signs or not, but I personally found it better this year.
Probably because people are afraid of someone calling the cops on them.
Perhaps. I dunno why, don't think anyone can say exactly WHY either. Just stating what I saw. Perhaps the lack of the signs kept things a bit calmer? I dunno.
Eh, I told myself I wouldn't really get into it. I just feel like all the post about glomping scared people into not doing it. Sounds like manipulation to me. Like I said though, I ain't goin to even trip about it anymore. I go to Fanime to have fun. Not not worry about this stuff.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Nyxyin on June 02, 2008, 04:14:36 AM
Saying that "glomp me" signs lead to harassment and/or stalking is like saying that playing video games makes children violent.  There is no reason to ban the signs themselves any more than there is to ban people from playing video games.  Besides, the lack of a sign doesn't prevent people from harassing others.  The basic premise that the signs need to be banned is fundamentally wrong.  So is the idea that signs and T-shirts are different.  If a phrase on a sign is soliciting, then it's just as much soliciting if it's on a T-shirt.  And what about pre-printed signs?  If "glomp me" T-shirts are allowed because of a certain mindset that comes with having put the shirt on that morning, shouldn't it be allowed on pre-printed foam signs too because they had to have printed it the night before?

By the way, if a glomp is a running hug, then glomping itself is already technically banned.  The hug part doesn't seem to be an issue, but there is supposed to be no running in the convention center.  Stalking and harassing are likewise already banned.  Besides, hugs and glomps don't necessarily lead to stalking and harassment.  Again, that's like saying that playing video games makes people violent, so video games should be banned.  Going into random details about whether there's a sign or not, whether it's on a T-shirt or a sign, whether it's hand-drawn on the spot or pre-printed, none of these things address the fundamental issues that people were apparently running, harassing, and stalking.  Those are the things that endanger others.  Holding signs and wearing shirts do not.  If they're running, nail them on running.  Running in crowded places is dangerous, and it's against the rules.  If they're stalking or harassing people, then nail them on that.  Holding a sign by itself is not a direct danger to anybody, which is why people keep complaining about the enforcement of that rule.  Claiming that signs by themselves lead to stalking and harassment and injury is very similar to the leap those protesters made when claiming that watching anime leads people to be evil and not believe in Jesus.  There are plenty of Christian anime fans.  The signs, like anime, are unrelated scapegoats.

Obviously, FanimeCon management can make and enforce whatever rules it wants; it's their con.  But, for Fanime to truly be "by fans, for fans", its management should show some restraint and not abuse that power.  Yes, people appreciate not getting physically attacked and having their costumes destroyed, but signs by themselves don't hurt people or destroy costumes.  Ban running.  Ban physical assaults.  Any reasonable person can understand that.  It's a lot less reasonable to ban signs because holding a sign by itself doesn't do anything.  Again, banning signs is like banning anime and video games in an attempt to make people less violent.  Saying that making signs demonstrates a certain mindset that leads to certain behavior borders on policing thought, and most people seem to agree that the thought police is a bad thing.

As for observations of less glomping this year, there were a lot of differences between 2007 and 2008, and it's hard to say what caused the change.  For example, less glomping could be the result of having twice as many SOS enforcers on the floor taking a more active part in keeping things under control.  Maybe the mere presence of so many SOS enforcers would've been enough to suppress random glomping regardless of their policy towards signs.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 04:31:38 AM
Saying that "glomp me" signs lead to harassment and/or stalking is like saying that playing video games makes children violent.  There is no reason to ban the signs themselves any more than there is to ban people from playing video games.  Besides, the lack of a sign doesn't prevent people from harassing others.  The basic premise that the signs need to be banned is fundamentally wrong.  So is the idea that signs and T-shirts are different.  If a phrase on a sign is soliciting, then it's just as much soliciting if it's on a T-shirt.  And what about pre-printed signs?  If "glomp me" T-shirts are allowed because of a certain mindset that comes with having put the shirt on that morning, shouldn't it be allowed on pre-printed foam signs too because they had to have printed it the night before?

By the way, if a glomp is a running hug, then glomping itself is already technically banned.  The hug part doesn't seem to be an issue, but there is supposed to be no running in the convention center.  Stalking and harassing are likewise already banned.  Besides, hugs and glomps don't necessarily lead to stalking and harassment.  Again, that's like saying that playing video games makes people violent, so video games should be banned.  Going into random details about whether there's a sign or not, whether it's on a T-shirt or a sign, whether it's hand-drawn on the spot or pre-printed, none of these things address the fundamental issues that people were apparently running, harassing, and stalking.  Those are the things that endanger others.  Holding signs and wearing shirts do not.  If they're running, nail them on running.  Running in crowded places is dangerous, and it's against the rules.  If they're stalking or harassing people, then nail them on that.  Holding a sign by itself is not a direct danger to anybody, which is why people keep complaining about the enforcement of that rule.  Claiming that signs by themselves lead to stalking and harassment and injury is very similar to the leap those protesters made when claiming that watching anime leads people to be evil and not believe in Jesus.  There are plenty of Christian anime fans.  The signs, like anime, are unrelated scapegoats.

Obviously, FanimeCon management can make and enforce whatever rules it wants; it's their con.  But, for Fanime to truly be "by fans, for fans", its management should show some restraint and not abuse that power.  Yes, people appreciate not getting physically attacked and having their costumes destroyed, but signs by themselves don't hurt people or destroy costumes.  Ban running.  Ban physical assaults.  Any reasonable person can understand that.  It's a lot less reasonable to ban signs because holding a sign by itself doesn't do anything.  Again, banning signs is like banning anime and video games in an attempt to make people less violent.  Saying that making signs demonstrates a certain mindset that leads to certain behavior borders on policing thought, and most people seem to agree that the thought police is a bad thing.

As for observations of less glomping this year, there were a lot of differences between 2007 and 2008, and it's hard to say what caused the change.  For example, less glomping could be the result of having twice as many SOS enforcers on the floor taking a more active part in keeping things under control.  Maybe the mere presence of so many SOS enforcers would've been enough to suppress random glomping regardless of their policy towards signs.

I can tell you why. It's because of stuff like http://youtube.com/watch?v=1x4j2O63Ccc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1x4j2O63Ccc) and http://youtube.com/watch?v=3NPAceC3bEM&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3NPAceC3bEM&feature=related) and http://youtube.com/watch?v=-4mbnHkRbJs&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-4mbnHkRbJs&feature=related). Watch those and tell me they weren't tryin to scare people into not glompin
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Stormfalcon on June 02, 2008, 08:04:25 AM
Whether it was the previous flamewars on the subject, the Glomp Responsibly videos, increased awareness on the subject, or just plain better enforcement, the end results were good.  The significant reductions in signs and glomping made Fanime '08 a better, more enjoyable con than it has been in the past few years, and I'd like for that to continue.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Evangelion Xgouki on June 02, 2008, 09:35:50 AM
Ah, the various Glomp Me signs.  While I'm not outright against their use at Fanime, some regulations do need to be done about them.  Making the signs out of fun and in the spirit of the con is perfectly fine by be, but when people make such signs in hopes of just being able to get physical contact...not cool.  The signs that say "Will <X> for <X>" really get to me though.  They just don't seem...proper given the demographic of the convention.  Especially the ages of the people who actually are using the signs.  While stricter rules might not always be a solution, it is one of the safest ways for Fanime to protect themselves should something happen when people aren't being responsible. 

As for the enforcement of policies...you kinda have to take it in stride.  The rules are there and the staffers/volunteers know the rules.  But that does not mean that they interpret them all in the same way.  For example, I've used my wooden sword with sheath for at least 3 Fanimes now.  It stands over 5 feet long and has the blade spray painted silver to look some-what like metal.  The only time I've had a problem was last year.  Going to get it peacebonded, the person on duty said that it had to be bonded TO MY BODY.  I kinda blinked and stared at her funny.  Then I stated how it would be next to impossible to sit down should the sword be strapped to my belt and tied down.  It took a while, but eventually it was just peacebonded shut.  This was the only time I've ever had an issue with it.  Every other time and at other cons they looked at the blade and just told me to be careful with it.  Not really any different than all those really long Sephiroth swords I see.  Mine just has a sheath  :P.  Just remember: if you have an issue and feel that you are being judged improperly, ask to speak with someone higher up.  Don't get into a huge argument or blow up.  That will only make the situation worse.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Mr Anime on June 02, 2008, 12:49:23 PM
They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?

They are simple and there's nothing complicated about them, but yet people still managed to show up with signs. I saw a few people walk into the dealer's room with "Hug Me!" and "Glomp Me" signs, yet the two staff members that were posted at the door checking people's badges didn't take the signs away. Guess some staff members just let things slide sometimes.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Steve.Young on June 02, 2008, 12:57:03 PM
They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?

They are simple and there's nothing complicated about them, but yet people still managed to show up with signs. I saw a few people walk into the dealer's room with "Hug Me!" and "Glomp Me" signs, yet the two staff members that were posted at the door checking people's badges didn't take the signs away. Guess some staff members just let things slide sometimes.

More than likely, they were volunteers, and/or they were uninformed. Sometimes other departments other than SOS don't have all the policies up to date and ingrained in them >.>

There are worse rules than no signs that solicit. If you honestly want to get into an argument over that, there are far worse things that could be banned but aren't because the Fanime higher ups aren't stupid.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 01:08:24 PM
Whether it was the previous flamewars on the subject, the Glomp Responsibly videos, increased awareness on the subject, or just plain better enforcement, the end results were good.  The significant reductions in signs and glomping made Fanime '08 a better, more enjoyable con than it has been in the past few years, and I'd like for that to continue.

Come on. There are other ways with dealing with the situation then using some big black dudes to scare the crap out of people into doing the "right thing" during Fanime. I've seen that before...in mafia movies. XD
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 01:17:38 PM
They pretty are simple, it's just that you(and others) are trying to complicate things. Don't make "Glomp me" signs or other stuff.

What is complicated about this?

They are simple and there's nothing complicated about them, but yet people still managed to show up with signs. I saw a few people walk into the dealer's room with "Hug Me!" and "Glomp Me" signs, yet the two staff members that were posted at the door checking people's badges didn't take the signs away. Guess some staff members just let things slide sometimes.

More than likely, they were volunteers, and/or they were uninformed. Sometimes other departments other than SOS don't have all the policies up to date and ingrained in them >.>

There are worse rules than no signs that solicit. If you honestly want to get into an argument over that, there are far worse things that could be banned but aren't because the Fanime higher ups aren't stupid.
I won't say I'm not upset about signs being banned because I am but if it's a rule I have to follow I have no choice. I'm just kinda annoyed that the topic keeps coming up over and over again. I just feel even by getting rid of the signs you still going to have those rare amount of people that don't as the videos said "glomp responsibly." I feel like the majority gets blamed for something a small amount of people are doing.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: Steve.Young on June 02, 2008, 01:31:03 PM
That's kinda how life works too.

A small group of people who are irresponsible ruins the fun for everyone.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: narutofan17 on June 02, 2008, 01:39:59 PM
That's kinda how life works too.

A small group of people who are irresponsible ruins the fun for everyone.
Yeah I know...it's not cool but I know.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: PyronIkari on June 02, 2008, 03:01:07 PM
I honestly dread reading your "serious" posts... because the logic behind them make absolutely no sense. You just randomly cling on to something that is SORT OF like the situation and claim and bitch and scream that it's not right in that situation so IT CAN'T BE RIGHT in the second... even though the two situations are not the same.

Saying that "glomp me" signs lead to harassment and/or stalking is like saying that playing video games makes children violent.  There is no reason to ban the signs themselves any more than there is to ban people from playing video games.  Besides, the lack of a sign doesn't prevent people from harassing others.  The basic premise that the signs need to be banned is fundamentally wrong.  So is the idea that signs and T-shirts are different.  If a phrase on a sign is soliciting, then it's just as much soliciting if it's on a T-shirt.  And what about pre-printed signs?  If "glomp me" T-shirts are allowed because of a certain mindset that comes with having put the shirt on that morning, shouldn't it be allowed on pre-printed foam signs too because they had to have printed it the night before?
Saying that "glomp me" signs lead to harassment and/or stalking is not like saying that playing video game leads to making children violent. The latter is an exposure to graphic nature. The theory behind this is that... if kids see violence they will mimic it. The major key points are that, they are children, and that they MIGHT blindly be mimicing something.

The Glomp Me signs is a theory that "If I have a sign, I will get what is written on the sign and nothing can stop me". Are you completely ignoring the multiple people that have said guys would follow them around holding the signs in front of girls' faces expecting them to do it? There is absolutely no way to deny that it takes place as it happens constantly and in large number. We're not talking about children here, we're talking about young adults, some in their 20's here doing this. This is about social adeptness more than anything else.

Quote
By the way, if a glomp is a running hug, then glomping itself is already technically banned.  The hug part doesn't seem to be an issue, but there is supposed to be no running in the convention center.  Stalking and harassing are likewise already banned.  Besides, hugs and glomps don't necessarily lead to stalking and harassment.  Again, that's like saying that playing video games makes people violent, so video games should be banned.  Going into random details about whether there's a sign or not, whether it's on a T-shirt or a sign, whether it's hand-drawn on the spot or pre-printed, none of these things address the fundamental issues that people were apparently running, harassing, and stalking.  Those are the things that endanger others.  Holding signs and wearing shirts do not.  If they're running, nail them on running.  Running in crowded places is dangerous, and it's against the rules.  If they're stalking or harassing people, then nail them on that.  Holding a sign by itself is not a direct danger to anybody, which is why people keep complaining about the enforcement of that rule.  Claiming that signs by themselves lead to stalking and harassment and injury is very similar to the leap those protesters made when claiming that watching anime leads people to be evil and not believe in Jesus.  There are plenty of Christian anime fans.  The signs, like anime, are unrelated scapegoats.
OH HO, now you're arguing schemantics. Hugs and glomps are not banned. This entire paragraph has no point in being in here. Once more your ENTIRE DAMN COMPARISON IS WRONG BECAUSE YOU DON'T ATTEMPT TO TRY AND FIND LIKE SITUATIONS.  When hugs and glomps are banned completely, you MIGHT be able to compare it to banning video games. Too bad they're not and this entire paragraph DOESN'T APPLY.

As for scapegoats... they're not. I can give one very simple example. Fire hazards. A staff member proudly proclaimed how he had a hug me sign in 2007. That staff member worked the door at e-gaming. More than multiple times I would see groups of people hugging said staff member. The door to the e-gaming room would be blocked almost entirely. This is a fire hazard. This happened because of the sign.

I will make a comparison similar to yours now, just so you can understand. Live steel is banned from the conventions correct? Why? If someone gets hurt, it's not the swords fault, it's clearly the person that is holding the sword. It's clearly the responisibility of the person that did not properly keep that sword from hurting someone.

The basis is that, the object directly promotes danger and irresponsible actions from happening. No one is stating that hugging or glomping itself is bad, or should be banned. But the sign promotes irresponsible behavior by not doing things in responsible places, not being aware of your surroundings and basic awareness over all. It's an open invitation for bad things to happen to the sign wearer(as I stated, it's really easy to steal from someone you're hugging)... and people use it as an excuse to act inappropriately.

In general, people don't know how to act at conventions. Why give them another reason to act inappropriately?

Quote
Obviously, FanimeCon management can make and enforce whatever rules it wants; it's their con.  But, for Fanime to truly be "by fans, for fans", its management should show some restraint and not abuse that power.  Yes, people appreciate not getting physically attacked and having their costumes destroyed, but signs by themselves don't hurt people or destroy costumes.  Ban running.  Ban physical assaults.  Any reasonable person can understand that.  It's a lot less reasonable to ban signs because holding a sign by itself doesn't do anything.  Again, banning signs is like banning anime and video games in an attempt to make people less violent.  Saying that making signs demonstrates a certain mindset that leads to certain behavior borders on policing thought, and most people seem to agree that the thought police is a bad thing.
As for it to be "by fans, for fans" it's management should take basic practices to protect the attendees from harm. How are they abbusing powers? They are taking an extra precaution because said problem has been around for years, and it's not as if Fanime is the only convention to recognize it? They could have outright banned signs completely like many other conventions have done, but they choose not to. They wanted to target ONLY the ones that seem to cause a problem.

Quote
As for observations of less glomping this year, there were a lot of differences between 2007 and 2008, and it's hard to say what caused the change.  For example, less glomping could be the result of having twice as many SOS enforcers on the floor taking a more active part in keeping things under control.  Maybe the mere presence of so many SOS enforcers would've been enough to suppress random glomping regardless of their policy towards signs.

Bull, because most people didn't know who were and were not roavers. This chain of logic is horrible. "It might not have been signs that changed this, SO YOU SHOULD BRING SIGNS BACK!" Obviously something was done right this year, as the problem was FAR FAR FAR FAR better. Just to let you know, other cons have also shown a decrease in random glompings etc. after they banned signs or enforced some rule about signs being carried.
Title: Re: The con is ruining our fun!
Post by: ewu on June 02, 2008, 06:39:54 PM
You know we can't really surmise the reasons why or why not certain things are banned unless we get something from those that establish those policies. I will request that we get some formal thing about signs set up, but that will take a while.

Until then this thread is locked. We getting too personal and straying from the discussion of signs.

Thanks:)