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FanimeCon: Participate, Join, Create => Ideas and Suggestions => Topic started by: Long on February 08, 2009, 10:44:53 PM

Title: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 08, 2009, 10:44:53 PM
Seems like the guys get good service at the Maid Cafe, but doesn't that leave out a significant demographic? Our fangirls aren't getting any service! Maybe we should open up a Host Club. The bar will serve root beer. ;B

Possible? Impossible? Comments, questions?
Title: Re: Host Club?
Post by: PyronIkari on February 08, 2009, 10:54:10 PM
I really wish people would learn what a host club was before suggesting it. A host club, is a male version of a hostess bar. A hostess bar is a bar where female hostesses are assigned to be your partner for the night. You pay for drinks for yourself and the girl and she drinks, flirts, and does all kinds of things with you.

A host bar is quite similar. Except it's for females and a male host.

The entire point is that, these are for lonely people to pretend they have a boyfriend/girlfriend that they can go out to a bar with, drink flirt, maybe get a massage, hold hands, maybe even kiss.

In other words, you pay someone to pretend to be your significant other.

You know, I really liked Ouran, but I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the false impression that it gives to people.

Now, a BUTLER CAFE is understandable to ask for. That would be a male form of a Maid Cafe.
Title: Re: Host Club?
Post by: Jun-Watarase on February 08, 2009, 10:55:06 PM
Possible? Impossible? Comments, questions?

Left out "illegal".

Though, just to clarify... besides the point that a host club would be impossible, maid cafes (while normally catered towards men) are for both genders and sexes. Both go to the maid cafe for the same general novelty-- to be served in a cafe by cute girls in maid uniforms, playing the role as a servant for their masters and mistresses. We refer and cater to both, referring to men as "Goshujinsama" and women as "Ojousama". It isn't so much the case where it's "one is for girls and one is for boys"-- they're just completely different things. People tend to misunderstand what a host club actually is, mostly from watching unrealistic anime series.

Just to add, it isn't that I'd be concerned of the traffic and loss of business for the cafe, competing with a host club, but it is impractical to run both a maid cafe and a host club. As they are completely different things, it'd take a lot of unnecessary time and effort to try to provide both. Training maids properly, managing the volunteers, and having the con provide what we need to make the maid cafe, a maid cafe, is a lot-- and having a host club would mean a whole other set of those things.

Also expanding on the fact that it is... illegal, and impossible to do in the states without being shady or having enough restrictions to make the host club not a host club, the idea just wouldn't pass.
Title: Re: Host Club?
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 08:47:14 AM
Hm. In that case, that idea is out. But what about just a bar. With bartenders? Have you read the manga Bartender (http://www.onemanga.com/Bartender/)? I think it'd be really fun to do something like that. Except no alcoholic drinks of course. Just soda, water, and our specialty: ROOT BEER! (If you can't tell I'm a huge root beer fan. xD )

The guys (or girls) could dress like this: (http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00002842/logo.jpg)

While I understand that it would be difficult for the con to provide enough resources for both events, I'm pretty sure there could definitely be a way to minimize cost for the bar so that it could be run specifically just by a few people on a pretty low budget. By fans, for fans right?

It'd be two different plays on a similar idea. Fans could choose to go either to the Maid Cafe or the Bar depending on their preference for the day. The maid cafe obviously has its perks and advantages. You have pretty girls in elegant uniforms serving drinks like tea and cookies and other more elegant things. The bar would be a contrast. Maybe just peanuts and like I said, those sodas. And a nice comfy place for people to hang out. While the maid cafe is for guys and girls, it's not always someone's preference. Sometimes they want to see nicely dressed guys giving them drinks and just chatting it up at the bar. Or maybe they'd just want rootbeer. xD

I do of course understand that using an actual bar would be out of the question. But it wouldn't be too difficult of course to just set up a few tables and make them look similar to a bar. All we'd need is floor space. Training and such can be done independently by us. We might even be able to totally fund it ourselves, and if the idea flies well, then Fanime could make it an official thing the next year around, and help with the funding.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: ewu on February 09, 2009, 09:47:05 AM
if it involves 1) food/drink sales 2)convention space or 3) room setup, it must involve Fanime. The convention center has strict rules w/ regards to serving, Fanime has the whole center booked, and b/c the center is a union house tables and chairs are contracted through our decorator....for a simple explanation, the con must put on this event.

Although if you want to do it yourself through special agreements with the center and Fanime, it will most likely run at least $1000 or more.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: codex biblio on February 09, 2009, 12:28:38 PM
Besides all the logistics around setting it up, I'm not sure I understand how Fanime would be a good venue for it. How would this be different from going to a regular bar (for the 21+ crowd)? Aren't there a bunch around the convention center? Or are you trying to give the underage crowd a taste of what it's like? (And if they're young ones with parents, would the parents really want them hanging out in a bar-like atmosphere?)  Just not sure where the appeal would be. Except root beer of course. I love root beer, too.
Title: Re: Host Club?
Post by: PyronIkari on February 09, 2009, 12:42:21 PM
Words here

Besides what Eric already covered about issues with the con center and selling anything about food or drink, I have another thing to add.

I'm fairly certain you are not over 21 nor have you ever been to a real bar like this(not like a sports bar but an old fashioned bar). You really can't replicate the mood or feelings you get, and you'd only need 1-2 people to do the job. The idea though isn't that the person serves you drinks. It's hard to explain this to someone that has never really gone to bars like this, but spirits do have their own personality. And within these spirits conversations arise. Drinking a glass of whisky while talking about something to the bartender. That's a different mood than taking a tequila shooter with a friend with the bartender in company. This is also a different mood than drinking a pint of beer.

It loses meaning if it's not alcohol to be honest, and it loses more meaning if there's more than a small handful people there. A nice quiet hole for people to crawl into and forget their worries. And a therapist behind the counter.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 01:33:30 PM
Okay, first to PyronIkari: I am aware that this "Bar" would never be exactly the same as a regular bar. However it would have some similarities. As a bar it would only be open at night. Perhaps even late night, preferably somewhere near the dance. The crowd would be small, or that's what I project.

The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place. We could of course have mixed drinks, but they would be non-alcoholic, like Shirley Temples or the like. As long as there's a gathering place, where people can sit quietly (or in some cases not-so-quietly) over a drink and just rest from dancing and simply chatting with each other or the bartender, then there would be a certain ambiance that is definitely worth having in my opinion.

By the way, I am not 21, but I have been to a number of old fashioned bars before. Just never allowed to drink there. :P ((And I can kind of tell that you've read the "Bartender" Manga. xD ))

To Codex: This bar would provide to its customers a crowd and servers that would be more understanding of their interests. Also it would be in very close vicinity, easy for people to take a rest, take a load off their feet, and converse about their day at the con. I do not know of many under 21 bars around the convention centers anyway, and our congoers are likely to get shunned there.

Parents of customers would either have to be understanding, or simply disallow their children from attending the bar. It's not that complicated really. If their parents don't wish them to attend the bar, then they simply won't be served. We don't have to serve everyone.

To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: ewu on February 09, 2009, 01:53:32 PM
This seems like a tough proposition. Basically it would entail full involvement of the con and you as the staffer in charge of it. I am not too sure the benefits or interest would be enough to warrant the spending of Fanime's resources on this, but regardless I will pitch the idea to the appropriate parties and you will get a response soon enough.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Jun-Watarase on February 09, 2009, 02:06:30 PM
The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place.

To be honest, I was thinking... "Did I read this sentence right?" and to my dismay, I did.

But just as an fiy, Eric is part of Head staff and is aware of what doing something like this would entail for the con, and it's rather impractical, to put it simply.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: PyronIkari on February 09, 2009, 02:17:33 PM
Okay, first to PyronIkari: I am aware that this "Bar" would never be exactly the same as a regular bar. However it would have some similarities. As a bar it would only be open at night. Perhaps even late night, preferably somewhere near the dance. The crowd would be small, or that's what I project.
Then you're looking at virtually no business to warrant something that will cost thousands of dollars. A sink that will only cater to maybe 15-20 people. Let's overcharge the hell out of them, and charge 5$ a drink. That's 100$ at best. 4 months of work, thousands of dollars, to get a 100$ back and to make 20 people happy, that won't really appreciate what it is. You're basically projecting a "dance club bar", which is incredibly different than the bar described in the comic.

Quote
The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place. We could of course have mixed drinks, but they would be non-alcoholic, like Shirley Temples or the like. As long as there's a gathering place, where people can sit quietly (or in some cases not-so-quietly) over a drink and just rest from dancing and simply chatting with each other or the bartender, then there would be a certain ambiance that is definitely worth having in my opinion.
I don't even understand the first sentence in this. I've read it about 10 times now and trying to let it sink in. And it just further pushes to me, that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. A spirit is a word described to use the alcohol, its origins, and its method of creation. Each drink contains a personality, and a story and the spirit of the drink is what the drink embodies. I've been drinking for about 11 years now, and I grew up with a brother who really appreciates alcohols and what they are. I've gone to bars with him for a long time and I still go to bars to relax and think occasionally. You cannot mimic or even simulate what a spirit represents. Then you say "Fanime has a spirit all on its own"... what does this have anything to do with the spirits of the bar? Bars aren't fun. They're not meant to be "fun". They're meant to be escapes of solitude. To release stress, to think, and to gather yourself. The entire environment of the bar goes against what you say "the spirit of fanime" is. Not to mention... there is a bar in the hotel. One that I have been to, and has a nice ambiance to. The bartender isn't very good the times I've gone, but the purpose is served.

Quote
By the way, I am not 21, but I have been to a number of old fashioned bars before. Just never allowed to drink there. :P ((And I can kind of tell that you've read the "Bartender" Manga. xD ))
Actually no, I did not read it. Going to a bar doesn't mean knowing what a bar is like. It's like stating "I've been to Disneyland, I didn't ride anything, I didn't see any shows, or play any games, but I've been, so I know what Disneyland is like."

Quote
To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.

Funded by the people who are planning? There's lots of issues with that. You're privately funding the event under fanime which has legal issues.

Money wise, you don't seem to understand this. The con just can't do whatever it wants and it has to go through the appropriate channels. Unions, food service, the convention center etc. There's hundreds of limitations, and forced issues that you have to leap through. This costs thousands of dollars to do. So unless you are willing to throw down a few thousand dollars, and get 0 back in return, this will not happen.

Edit
I thought I made this clear, but I guess I didn't. The entire point of the bar is the environment, the spirits, and the escape. Something you can't do in this situation for numerous reasons.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Tony on February 09, 2009, 02:23:39 PM
I admit that logistically we could do this. But, I think you lose all of the magic - minus the "guys dressed nicely" - if you did it through FanimeCon (and consequently through the convention center). For me, then, it's not a question of "how" but "why", when you lose a major component like that.

I know - Maid Cafe isn't exactly true to its atmosphere, either - but there's more to Maid Cafe than the appearance (and Jun is working hard on developing those other pieces). So, it can work despite it being part of FanimeCon and the SJCC.

There's more to it, but I hope you get the gist.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: PyronIkari on February 09, 2009, 02:37:50 PM
I admit that logistically we could do this. But, I think you lose all of the magic - minus the "guys dressed nicely" - if you did it through FanimeCon (and consequently through the convention center). For me, then, it's not a question of "how" but "why", when you lose a major component like that.

I know - Maid Cafe isn't exactly true to its atmosphere, either - but there's more to Maid Cafe than the appearance (and Jun is working hard on developing those other pieces). So, it can work despite it being part of FanimeCon and the SJCC.

There's more to it, but I hope you get the gist.

The issue with the Maid Cafe, is that there is an atmosphere, but the atmosphere itself isn't so important over the actions of the maid's themselves. Where as with a bar... the atmosphere is everything.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Steve.Young on February 09, 2009, 02:42:11 PM
I admit that logistically we could do this. But, I think you lose all of the magic - minus the "guys dressed nicely" - if you did it through FanimeCon (and consequently through the convention center). For me, then, it's not a question of "how" but "why", when you lose a major component like that.

I know - Maid Cafe isn't exactly true to its atmosphere, either - but there's more to Maid Cafe than the appearance (and Jun is working hard on developing those other pieces). So, it can work despite it being part of FanimeCon and the SJCC.

There's more to it, but I hope you get the gist.

Logistically we put this where? Last time I checked, we're booked pretty good =P

On another note though, this would cost a bit. You'd be surprised how expensive everything is once it's been unionized.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: ewu on February 09, 2009, 02:45:59 PM
yay budgets! *dances*......
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Steve.Young on February 09, 2009, 02:47:36 PM
yay budgets! *dances*......

Mine got cut a little, how about you =p?
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: jemz on February 09, 2009, 02:51:52 PM

To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.

There's quite a lot of logistics and other concerns that will need to be hammered out. Like Tony said, it IS doable. But is it worth it? Is there a high demand for it? And what are you trying to accomplish?

Putting on something like that will require thousands of dollars and it's not something that is done without a lot of intensive thought. And lots of convincing.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 03:10:17 PM
Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 03:21:03 PM
Okay, first to PyronIkari: I am aware that this "Bar" would never be exactly the same as a regular bar. However it would have some similarities. As a bar it would only be open at night. Perhaps even late night, preferably somewhere near the dance. The crowd would be small, or that's what I project.
Then you're looking at virtually no business to warrant something that will cost thousands of dollars. A sink that will only cater to maybe 15-20 people. Let's overcharge the hell out of them, and charge 5$ a drink. That's 100$ at best. 4 months of work, thousands of dollars, to get a 100$ back and to make 20 people happy, that won't really appreciate what it is. You're basically projecting a "dance club bar", which is incredibly different than the bar described in the comic.

Quote
The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place. We could of course have mixed drinks, but they would be non-alcoholic, like Shirley Temples or the like. As long as there's a gathering place, where people can sit quietly (or in some cases not-so-quietly) over a drink and just rest from dancing and simply chatting with each other or the bartender, then there would be a certain ambiance that is definitely worth having in my opinion.
I don't even understand the first sentence in this. I've read it about 10 times now and trying to let it sink in. And it just further pushes to me, that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. A spirit is a word described to use the alcohol, its origins, and its method of creation. Each drink contains a personality, and a story and the spirit of the drink is what the drink embodies. I've been drinking for about 11 years now, and I grew up with a brother who really appreciates alcohols and what they are. I've gone to bars with him for a long time and I still go to bars to relax and think occasionally. You cannot mimic or even simulate what a spirit represents. Then you say "Fanime has a spirit all on its own"... what does this have anything to do with the spirits of the bar? Bars aren't fun. They're not meant to be "fun". They're meant to be escapes of solitude. To release stress, to think, and to gather yourself. The entire environment of the bar goes against what you say "the spirit of fanime" is. Not to mention... there is a bar in the hotel. One that I have been to, and has a nice ambiance to. The bartender isn't very good the times I've gone, but the purpose is served.

Quote
By the way, I am not 21, but I have been to a number of old fashioned bars before. Just never allowed to drink there. :P ((And I can kind of tell that you've read the "Bartender" Manga. xD ))
Actually no, I did not read it. Going to a bar doesn't mean knowing what a bar is like. It's like stating "I've been to Disneyland, I didn't ride anything, I didn't see any shows, or play any games, but I've been, so I know what Disneyland is like."

Quote
To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.

Funded by the people who are planning? There's lots of issues with that. You're privately funding the event under fanime which has legal issues.

Money wise, you don't seem to understand this. The con just can't do whatever it wants and it has to go through the appropriate channels. Unions, food service, the convention center etc. There's hundreds of limitations, and forced issues that you have to leap through. This costs thousands of dollars to do. So unless you are willing to throw down a few thousand dollars, and get 0 back in return, this will not happen.

Edit
I thought I made this clear, but I guess I didn't. The entire point of the bar is the environment, the spirits, and the escape. Something you can't do in this situation for numerous reasons.
To be honest, what I got from your post is "I'm a hoity toity bar connoisseur, so I'm better than you."

I don't care how long you've been drinking alcohol, because that has absolutely nothing to do with this idea, seeing as we aren't even serving alcohol. Your idea of a bar may be simply to relieve stress, but that's not the general idea of all bars. There are many people who drink recreationally and don't just go to cry out their troubles and fill themselves with booze.

This is simply an idea to help provide a bit of relief and relaxation as well as a place to chat it up at the end of the con day. If you really don't like it, and you've already expressed your dislike of the idea that's fine, but it seems that you're trying to attack me personally, and trying to downgrade me, which is honestly just immature.

And I already understand that a bar is about atmosphere, which is specifically why I am pushing this idea. If I just wanted a drink joint I would have just suggested they put in another vending machine or something. =/
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: PyronIkari on February 09, 2009, 03:28:07 PM
Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]

I'm guessing you're young. Really young. As you don't seem to realize that "materials" aren't the only cost of things. Realistically drinks would only cost like a 100$. Lighting would only cost 50$... IF Fanime was able to purchase the drinks themselves, the lights themselves, and setup everything themselves. Union fees. First they'd have to get permission from the convention which costs money. They'd have to clear the drinks and servers, which would go through the convention and that costs money. Then they'd have to get officials since they're serving drinks they'd have to get an official to okay, costs money... and more money, and more money.

The return would be incredibly small. There is really no interest in this. Everyone older than 21 would rather go to a real bar, where the prices will be generally the same, only we can get alcohol. The younger kids could just buy drinks from the vending machines which would be cheaper. The only thing would be the appeal. This would require getting 3-4 bartenders that are extremely charismatic and capable of holding conversations, and more importantly listening well. To sit there and pour drinks.

To be honest, I like people giving ideas, but I really wish people would REALLY THINK about what they're pushing, how it would work and actually be able to give a decent presentation on what they want to push. This is no different than your host club idea. You really haven't a clue what you're talking about, nor what you're really pushing. You're pushing an idea you don't know about, and you've shown it's evident that you don't know what you're talking about. You've shown you don't have real experience just an idea that "yeah this is important". Logistics aside(and logistics alone is reason to say no it should never happen), there is no appeal or reason to have a bar. There is a bar already in the hotel.

I was against the Maid Cafe, but that was due to capability on terms of those working. It was about knowledge and training. Now that Jun is heading it, I think it's fully capable. It won't be perfect but it serves all the main purposes it should. I disagreed with having a Maid Cafe, but I didn't say it was impossible to do decently, just not perfectly.

A bar cannot. You cannot mimic what a bar is nor what it represents in Fanime. It's the same as a host club. You can have one, but you will not have to meaning and point of it. With that gone, what you have is an empty shell. I don't care if it's perfect, I care that the point of what you're doing is carried out. The point of a bar is completely loss.

However, I do so much love replies like yours. Where you act like a hypocrite. You say that I'm attacking you, when I'm not. I'm merely pointing out you're ignorant, and you're pushing something through ignorance. However, you then retaliate by attacking me by saying you don't care about my experiences, or points. You even completely missed my point on what a bar was, and that makes me further believe you don't know what a bar like this is for.

You state that you don't care about the idea, but you seem adamant in trying to prove us wrong as if your idea is good.

Simply put, shut up for now, and come back when you can prove it's worth doing, show how you can mimic a bar's atmosphere and point... and maybe then something would really be worth listening to.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: jemz on February 09, 2009, 03:31:55 PM
Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]

It will cost more than you think. Disregarding how much we pay our decorator and the cost of the facilities, your "drink budget" will be more than that because you run into the fact that you will have to use the Convention Center's catering company in order to even have tap water served. There's a lot of other factors that come into play but for simplicity's sake, this is your biggest monetary obstacle since it will cost way more than $500.

Your next biggest obstacle will be the tech aka lighting. Which involves paying union to put up rented tech and that equals to more money spent, pushing the budget for this over what you are estimating.

Don't let what we're saying deter you from pursuing this idea if you are really determined to bring this sort of thing to Fanime. We wholeheartedly encourage ideas but, at the same time, please be aware that the executive staff have to be very realistic about the feasibility of the ideas (aka time, logistics, space, money, etc.) and will ask those questions.

After all, FaniMaid Cafe started out as forum idea a few years ago and look where it is now. :D
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 03:41:18 PM
Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]

It will cost more than you think. Disregarding how much we pay our decorator and the cost of the facilities, your "drink budget" will be more than that because you run into the fact that you will have to use the Convention Center's catering company in order to even have tap water served. There's a lot of other factors that come into play but for simplicity's sake, this is your biggest monetary obstacle since it will cost way more than $500.

Your next biggest obstacle will be the tech aka lighting. Which involves paying union to put up rented tech and that equals to more money spent, pushing the budget for this over what you are estimating.

Don't let what we're saying deter you from pursuing this idea if you are really determined to bring this sort of thing to Fanime. We wholeheartedly encourage ideas but, at the same time, please be aware that the executive staff have to be very realistic about the feasibility of the ideas (aka time, logistics, space, money, etc.) and will ask those questions.

After all, FaniMaid Cafe started out as forum idea a few years ago and look where it is now. :D
Thank you for actually replying to my post in a thoughtful and polite manner. Until now it seemed that any forum idea would be immediately shot down by everyone in the rudest way possible without them even giving you a reason as to why.

I understand. Like I said, this idea is not worth more than $500, so if it's really going to cost that much, I'd just say forget it. I didn't understand that everything has to go through some kind of Union or something that will jack up the prices to unreasonable amounts. I was just thinking that we could hit Costco, and buy some props from K-Mart or something. I understand now though, so again, thank you. =]
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Jun-Watarase on February 09, 2009, 03:51:47 PM
Thank you for actually replying to my post in a thoughtful and polite manner. Until now it seemed that any forum idea would be immediately shot down by everyone in the rudest way possible without them even giving you a reason as to why.

But people did explain to you why, and no one was "extremely rude" to you, other than Pyron being quite blunt in explaining it to you. Everyone who posted on this thread, except Pyron and Codex are all "upper" staff. It just so happens that Jemz is an extremely nice person, but a lot of the information given to you was already said in a slightly less detailed form, that explain the same exact thing. The difference is, you needed it to be spoon fed to you in order to understand.

If you feel that attendees would be receptive to the idea, and that the positive effect is worth the money and effort, it would be considered. But the thing is, both the ideas that you presented, you pretty much had no real clue about as to how they function, in or out of FanimeCon.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 03:53:15 PM
Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]

I'm guessing you're young. Really young. As you don't seem to realize that "materials" aren't the only cost of things. Realistically drinks would only cost like a 100$. Lighting would only cost 50$... IF Fanime was able to purchase the drinks themselves, the lights themselves, and setup everything themselves. Union fees. First they'd have to get permission from the convention which costs money. They'd have to clear the drinks and servers, which would go through the convention and that costs money. Then they'd have to get officials since they're serving drinks they'd have to get an official to okay, costs money... and more money, and more money.

The return would be incredibly small. There is really no interest in this. Everyone older than 21 would rather go to a real bar, where the prices will be generally the same, only we can get alcohol. The younger kids could just buy drinks from the vending machines which would be cheaper. The only thing would be the appeal. This would require getting 3-4 bartenders that are extremely charismatic and capable of holding conversations, and more importantly listening well. To sit there and pour drinks.

To be honest, I like people giving ideas, but I really wish people would REALLY THINK about what they're pushing, how it would work and actually be able to give a decent presentation on what they want to push. This is no different than your host club idea. You really haven't a clue what you're talking about, nor what you're really pushing. You're pushing an idea you don't know about, and you've shown it's evident that you don't know what you're talking about. You've shown you don't have real experience just an idea that "yeah this is important". Logistics aside(and logistics alone is reason to say no it should never happen), there is no appeal or reason to have a bar. There is a bar already in the hotel.

I was against the Maid Cafe, but that was due to capability on terms of those working. It was about knowledge and training. Now that Jun is heading it, I think it's fully capable. It won't be perfect but it serves all the main purposes it should. I disagreed with having a Maid Cafe, but I didn't say it was impossible to do decently, just not perfectly.

A bar cannot. You cannot mimic what a bar is nor what it represents in Fanime. It's the same as a host club. You can have one, but you will not have to meaning and point of it. With that gone, what you have is an empty shell. I don't care if it's perfect, I care that the point of what you're doing is carried out. The point of a bar is completely loss.

However, I do so much love replies like yours. Where you act like a hypocrite. You say that I'm attacking you, when I'm not. I'm merely pointing out you're ignorant, and you're pushing something through ignorance. However, you then retaliate by attacking me by saying you don't care about my experiences, or points. You even completely missed my point on what a bar was, and that makes me further believe you don't know what a bar like this is for.

You state that you don't care about the idea, but you seem adamant in trying to prove us wrong as if your idea is good.

Simply put, shut up for now, and come back when you can prove it's worth doing, show how you can mimic a bar's atmosphere and point... and maybe then something would really be worth listening to.
Again, with the personal attacks. Sheesh. And you really should refrain from the assumptions. They just make you look foolish. I've probably been going to Fanime longer than you have, and for your information, I'm 20 years old.

If you don't like an idea, explain why, in a polite manner preferably, or else you just come off looking like a dick. And this:

Quote
However, I do so much love replies like yours. Where you act like a hypocrite. You say that I'm attacking you, when I'm not. I'm merely pointing out you're ignorant, and you're pushing something through ignorance. However, you then retaliate by attacking me by saying you don't care about my experiences, or points. You even completely missed my point on what a bar was, and that makes me further believe you don't know what a bar like this is for.

What does that even mean? You obviously don't know the meaning of the word hypocrite either. At this point in time, in this specific post, I may be acting like a hypocrite, because I am now attacking you personally and questioning your intelligence, but I wasn't doing it at any point before this. =/

My idea is a good one. It is to me at least. But everything probably starts from an unrealistic basis. Simply because I have an idea that is probably highly difficult to pull off, or even impossible, the best way to deal with those suggestions is to explain why. And your repetitive plaintive cries of "you don't know what this bar is for", just really come off as stupid. Seeing as I am the one who has the image of the bar in my mind, and it is my idea, I am pretty certain I know what "THIS" bar is for. It may not serve the same purpose as your bar, but contrary to your belief, not everything has to be 100% authentic to be enjoyable. So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun. Sometimes otaku-ness like yours can reach a point to which you just end up pissing off other people with your uncompromisable nature.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 04:00:27 PM
Thank you for actually replying to my post in a thoughtful and polite manner. Until now it seemed that any forum idea would be immediately shot down by everyone in the rudest way possible without them even giving you a reason as to why.

But people did explain to you why, and no one was "extremely rude" to you, other than Pyron being quite blunt in explaining it to you. Everyone who posted on this thread, except Pyron and Codex are all "upper" staff. It just so happens that Jemz is an extremely nice person, but a lot of the information given to you was already said in a slightly less detailed form, that explain the same exact thing. The difference is, you needed it to be spoon fed to you in order to understand.

If you feel that attendees would be receptive to the idea, and that the positive effect is worth the money and effort, it would be considered. But the thing is, both the ideas that you presented, you pretty much had no real clue about as to how they function, in or out of FanimeCon.
The information was not presented in a way that was easily understandable. It was dispersed in fragments that I believe no one would have understood unless they had already known those concepts.

And you are misinformed as to my knowledge of both concepts which I presented. I knew perfectly well beforehand what exactly a host club really is, and I know in general, how a bar is supposed to present itself. However, I thought common sense would play into this, and you all would understand that I did not mean to take either concept in its literal and realistic form. As for the host club, I had the idea in mind, something similar to Ouran, simply because I know those forms of prostitution are illegal in California. However, if it's just serving drinks and food (similar to what the Maid cafe does, and similar to the Ouran anime) then it would be perfectly fine. But you seemed to get hung up on the literal translation of a Host bar, so I didn't pursue it.

The bar was the same way. I presented the general vague idea of a bar. A congregational space of service, and conversation, and you got hung up on the literal translation of the bar as well, pretty much saying, that if it isn't perfect, we might as well not do it. These are my ideas and they would be followed according to my views, and not yours, if they were accepted. Simply because it doesn't meet your specific standards doesn't mean it won't work. I just felt that most of you came off as rude. Especially you Jun, and definitely Pyron.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: PyronIkari on February 09, 2009, 04:14:43 PM
Laffo
Again, with the personal attacks. Sheesh. And you really should refrain from the assumptions. They just make you look foolish. I've probably been going to Fanime longer than you have, and for your information, I'm 20 years old.

If you don't like an idea, explain why, in a polite manner preferably, or else you just come off looking like a dick. And this:

What does that even mean? You obviously don't know the meaning of the word hypocrite either. At this point in time, in this specific post, I may be acting like a hypocrite, because I am now attacking you personally and questioning your intelligence, but I wasn't doing it at any point before this. =/
According to your sig, I've been going for a lot longer. I'm not polite. Why should I be polite? I'll be polite if you give me a reason to be polite. Here's how this worked out.

You thought of an idea. An idea you know nothing about but assumed it would be good. You then posted that idea. Two people posted how it was a horrible idea and how ignorant of the subject you are. You then changed the idea in an attempt to save face. Once more you were shown how ignorant you were on the subject. You put absolutely no thought into those ideas at all as to how it would work. You just assumed "I have an idea I SHOULD PUSH IT WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT FIRST!". Why should I be polite to this? I merely just pointed out how wrong you are, then you got pissed off.

Quote
My idea is a good one. It is to me at least. But everything probably starts from an unrealistic basis. Simply because I have an idea that is probably highly difficult to pull off, or even impossible, the best way to deal with those suggestions is to explain why. And your repetitive plaintive cries of "you don't know what this bar is for", just really come off as stupid. Seeing as I am the one who has the image of the bar in my mind, and it is my idea, I am pretty certain I know what "THIS" bar is for. It may not serve the same purpose as your bar, but contrary to your belief, not everything has to be 100% authentic to be enjoyable. So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun. Sometimes otaku-ness like yours can reach a point to which you just end up pissing off other people with your uncompromisable nature.

A good idea to you, is not a good idea. Some people think setting their underwear on fire and getting it stomped out by friends is a good idea. It's not that it's difficult, nor hard to pull off, nor even impossible. It's that you put absolutely no thought into the idea and then got mad when someone showed you how ignorant you are. "YOUR IMAGE" of a bar is ignorant. As I said, you have never really gone nor experienced what a BAR is. There are different kinds of bars, but the bar you pushed is the bar similar to that of Bartender. This is a very specific type of bar, with a specific type of customer. As I said, it isn't a sports bar. It's not a lounge bar, it's not a club bar, it's not a restaurant bar.  When did something have to be 100% authentic to serve the same purpose? IT DOES have to serve the same purpose to be what it is.

The least you could have done was at least attempt to know what you're talking about before you pushed it. So the maid cafe isn't 100% authentic. Does that mean we shouldn't care that it's like a maid cafe at all?

HINT: My girlfriend is this years head maid.

You're trying to make something as authentic as possible, it may not be exact, but if the point of it is there, then meaning is passed on.

Wanna know some irony in this? This is basically the same base message of the spirits. Drinking doesn't accomplish anything realistically... but the spirits represent parts of life and culture.

Don't get angry and mad at me because you are ignorant.

Should I edit this and further show your ignorance? Sure I guess I will just to prove the point even further.

Quote
And you are misinformed as to my knowledge of both concepts which I presented. I knew perfectly well beforehand what exactly a host club really is, and I know in general, how a bar is supposed to present itself. However, I thought common sense would play into this, and you all would understand that I did not mean to take either concept in its literal and realistic form. As for the host club, I had the idea in mind, something similar to Ouran, simply because I know those forms of prostitution are illegal in California. However, if it's just serving drinks and food (similar to what the Maid cafe does, and similar to the Ouran anime) then it would be perfectly fine. But you seemed to get hung up on the literal translation of a Host bar, so I didn't pursue it.
I call bull on this. Had you known, you wouldn't have suggested "a host club". You would have suggested what you are saying... a Butler cafe, or a male cosplay cafe. Something similar to Ouran? Ouran is a lot closer to a real host club than you realize. Characters in Ouran purposely do seductive things, holding each other, kissing hands, whispering in ears. So if it was "like Ouran" it'd still be illegal.

Your attempt to act like you knew better: FAILURE

Quote
The bar was the same way. I presented the general vague idea of a bar. A congregational space of service, and conversation, and you got hung up on the literal translation of the bar as well, pretty much saying, that if it isn't perfect, we might as well not do it. These are my ideas and they would be followed according to my views, and not yours, if they were accepted. Simply because it doesn't meet your specific standards doesn't mean it won't work. I just felt that most of you came off as rude. Especially you Jun, and definitely Pyron.
Oh, I came off as rude? Do I give a damn at this point? Not really? It doesn't change that everything I said beginning to end was 100% true. Once more, it doesn't have to be purpose... it just has to SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE. If you call a place a bakery, and it doesn't served baked goods, it is not a bakery. It shouldn't be called a bakery. If a place is a Japanese cuisine restaurant, and they serve generic Asian food, it isn't a Japanese restaurant. What you are proclaiming to do is to take something that has a very existing presence, give that name and then do something that has nothing to do with that existence. What you want isn't a bar like the bar from Bartender... so DON'T CALL IT THAT. What you're talking about is more of a SPORTS BAR or a LOUNGE BAR according to how it's setup. So why did you even bring up Bartender at all? It is completely counter productive. "Hey guys, let's make a soccer sports league for fanime, like it Captain Tsubasa..." "We don't have a soccer field" "I DIDN'T MEAN EXACTLY LIKE THAT, I MET LET'S PLAY BASKETBALL!"

That's basically what you're doing.

You're 20?

Ha.... man, if you were younger, at least you'd have an excuse.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Jun-Watarase on February 09, 2009, 04:15:38 PM
My idea is a good one. It is to me at least. But everything probably starts from an unrealistic basis. Simply because I have an idea that is probably highly difficult to pull off, or even impossible, the best way to deal with those suggestions is to explain why. And your repetitive plaintive cries of "you don't know what this bar is for", just really come off as stupid. Seeing as I am the one who has the image of the bar in my mind, and it is my idea, I am pretty certain I know what "THIS" bar is for. It may not serve the same purpose as your bar, but contrary to your belief, not everything has to be 100% authentic to be enjoyable. So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun. Sometimes otaku-ness like yours can reach a point to which you just end up pissing off other people with your uncompromisable nature.

But you don't know what your bar is for, and have so far not explained it. If you gave us an explanation of where you're actually going with this idea, perhaps we'd have more we could work with. So far you haven't explained anything.

And in reply to "So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun.", some people might not care, but a good amount of people do, which includes me. As someone who is currently running and organizing this event, I do care that the maid cafe should emulate an actual maid cafe. If anything, it was THE main concern, that the maid cafe is an actual competent maid cafe that'd emulate ones that of Akihabara. Attendees who are aware of maid cafes care, as well, and their responses to our maid cafe's previous years reflect that.

Pyron may not have been the nicest person in explaining to you, but the points are the same and explained plenty reason why there are issues with your suggestion.

And you are misinformed as to my knowledge of both concepts which I presented. I knew perfectly well beforehand what exactly a host club really is, and I know in general, how a bar is supposed to present itself. However, I thought common sense would play into this, and you all would understand that I did not mean to take either concept in its literal and realistic form. As for the host club, I had the idea in mind, something similar to Ouran, simply because I know those forms of prostitution are illegal in California. However, if it's just serving drinks and food (similar to what the Maid cafe does, and similar to the Ouran anime) then it would be perfectly fine. But you seemed to get hung up on the literal translation of a Host bar, so I didn't pursue it.

Really, if you were knowledgeable, you would realize why it's a bad idea. A host club is not simply sharply-dressed guys serving you food and drinks. Though, if we did run a "host club" like that of what you're idealizing, it would still be impractical to do.

Quote
The bar was the same way. I presented the general vague idea of a bar. A congregational space of service, and conversation, and you got hung up on the literal translation of the bar as well, pretty much saying, that if it isn't perfect, we might as well not do it. These are my ideas and they would be followed according to my views, and not yours, if they were accepted. Simply because it doesn't meet your specific standards doesn't mean it won't work. I just felt that most of you came off as rude. Especially you Jun, and definitely Pyron.

It's not even so much as "meeting standards" as it is "actually working". What you lose from trying to make this "bar" pretty much strips what would make it "a bar", other than the extremely vague surface of what a bar is-- "some place where you get drinks". It would be like having a maid cafe with just girls in maid uniforms... and end it there.

Also, I shouldn't have to assume that I need to kiss up to you in order for you to be able to read information. I did keep my posts neutral for the most part when replying to you, until you made it very clear that you have no clue what you're talking about, and persisting certain things when they were already clearly told to you for being impractical or undoable.

EDIT: Again, I hate posting right after Mikey. >:|
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 04:31:19 PM
Laffo
Again, with the personal attacks. Sheesh. And you really should refrain from the assumptions. They just make you look foolish. I've probably been going to Fanime longer than you have, and for your information, I'm 20 years old.

If you don't like an idea, explain why, in a polite manner preferably, or else you just come off looking like a dick. And this:

What does that even mean? You obviously don't know the meaning of the word hypocrite either. At this point in time, in this specific post, I may be acting like a hypocrite, because I am now attacking you personally and questioning your intelligence, but I wasn't doing it at any point before this. =/
According to your sig, I've been going for a lot longer. I'm not polite. Why should I be polite? I'll be polite if you give me a reason to be polite. Here's how this worked out.

You thought of an idea. An idea you know nothing about but assumed it would be good. You then posted that idea. Two people posted how it was a horrible idea and how ignorant of the subject you are. You then changed the idea in an attempt to save face. Once more you were shown how ignorant you were on the subject. You put absolutely no thought into those ideas at all as to how it would work. You just assumed "I have an idea I SHOULD PUSH IT WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT FIRST!". Why should I be polite to this? I merely just pointed out how wrong you are, then you got pissed off.

Quote
My idea is a good one. It is to me at least. But everything probably starts from an unrealistic basis. Simply because I have an idea that is probably highly difficult to pull off, or even impossible, the best way to deal with those suggestions is to explain why. And your repetitive plaintive cries of "you don't know what this bar is for", just really come off as stupid. Seeing as I am the one who has the image of the bar in my mind, and it is my idea, I am pretty certain I know what "THIS" bar is for. It may not serve the same purpose as your bar, but contrary to your belief, not everything has to be 100% authentic to be enjoyable. So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun. Sometimes otaku-ness like yours can reach a point to which you just end up pissing off other people with your uncompromisable nature.

A good idea to you, is not a good idea. Some people think setting their underwear on fire and getting it stomped out by friends is a good idea. It's not that it's difficult, nor hard to pull off, nor even impossible. It's that you put absolutely no thought into the idea and then got mad when someone showed you how ignorant you are. "YOUR IMAGE" of a bar is ignorant. As I said, you have never really gone nor experienced what a BAR is. There are different kinds of bars, but the bar you pushed is the bar similar to that of Bartender. This is a very specific type of bar, with a specific type of customer. As I said, it isn't a sports bar. It's not a lounge bar, it's not a club bar, it's not a restaurant bar.  When did something have to be 100% authentic to serve the same purpose? IT DOES have to serve the same purpose to be what it is.

The least you could have done was at least attempt to know what you're talking about before you pushed it. So the maid cafe isn't 100% authentic. Does that mean we shouldn't care that it's like a maid cafe at all?

HINT: My girlfriend is this years head maid.

You're trying to make something as authentic as possible, it may not be exact, but if the point of it is there, then meaning is passed on.

Wanna know some irony in this? This is basically the same base message of the spirits. Drinking doesn't accomplish anything realistically... but the spirits represent parts of life and culture.

Don't get angry and mad at me because you are ignorant.

Should I edit this and further show your ignorance? Sure I guess I will just to prove the point even further.

Quote
And you are misinformed as to my knowledge of both concepts which I presented. I knew perfectly well beforehand what exactly a host club really is, and I know in general, how a bar is supposed to present itself. However, I thought common sense would play into this, and you all would understand that I did not mean to take either concept in its literal and realistic form. As for the host club, I had the idea in mind, something similar to Ouran, simply because I know those forms of prostitution are illegal in California. However, if it's just serving drinks and food (similar to what the Maid cafe does, and similar to the Ouran anime) then it would be perfectly fine. But you seemed to get hung up on the literal translation of a Host bar, so I didn't pursue it.
I call bull on this. Had you known, you wouldn't have suggested "a host club". You would have suggested what you are saying... a Butler cafe, or a male cosplay cafe. Something similar to Ouran? Ouran is a lot closer to a real host club than you realize. Characters in Ouran purposely do seductive things, holding each other, kissing hands, whispering in ears. So if it was "like Ouran" it'd still be illegal.

Your attempt to act like you knew better: FAILURE

Quote
The bar was the same way. I presented the general vague idea of a bar. A congregational space of service, and conversation, and you got hung up on the literal translation of the bar as well, pretty much saying, that if it isn't perfect, we might as well not do it. These are my ideas and they would be followed according to my views, and not yours, if they were accepted. Simply because it doesn't meet your specific standards doesn't mean it won't work. I just felt that most of you came off as rude. Especially you Jun, and definitely Pyron.
Oh, I came off as rude? Do I give a damn at this point? Not really? It doesn't change that everything I said beginning to end was 100% true. Once more, it doesn't have to be purpose... it just has to SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE. If you call a place a bakery, and it doesn't served baked goods, it is not a bakery. It shouldn't be called a bakery. If a place is a Japanese cuisine restaurant, and they serve generic Asian food, it isn't a Japanese restaurant. What you are proclaiming to do is to take something that has a very existing presence, give that name and then do something that has nothing to do with that existence. What you want isn't a bar like the bar from Bartender... so DON'T CALL IT THAT. What you're talking about is more of a SPORTS BAR or a LOUNGE BAR according to how it's setup. So why did you even bring up Bartender at all? It is completely counter productive. "Hey guys, let's make a soccer sports league for fanime, like it Captain Tsubasa..." "We don't have a soccer field" "I DIDN'T MEAN EXACTLY LIKE THAT, I MET LET'S PLAY BASKETBALL!"

That's basically what you're doing.

You're 20?

Ha.... man, if you were younger, at least you'd have an excuse.
Oh God. Do you have to write fucking novels every time you post. Keep your next post down to 3 paragraphs, no more than 4-5 sentences per paragraph or I'm not reading it. I had an idea. I didn't coordinate every fucking detail in that idea, no. But I put the idea out there, so I could get feedback on it, and get a better picture on what exactly it would entail. I was not pushing anything. People aren't fucking born with the knowledge of everything already inscribed into their brains, okay?

Say what you want about my knowledge of what a host club is. I don't care, because you're just an idiot spouting off your trap about shit thinking he can read my mind. Maybe I didn't use the term Butler cafe because I've never heard of such a stupid word? Okay?

So let's look at the definition of a bar, okay? Good ol'Merriam Webster definition.


bar 1  (bär)
n.
a.  A counter at which drinks, especially alcoholic drinks, and sometimes food, are served.

So according to the dictionary, you're an idiot. I don't see shit in there about an 'escape'  or 'atmosphere', or 'spirit of the alcohol' bullshit you're bitching about. If it's a counter, and there are drinks, it's a bar. Anything we add is purely superfluous, or ornamental.

And if you read Bartender, which you say you didn't, so I don't know why you're even using that as a reference, there are a number of bars which are displayed in the manga Bartender, some of which are lounge bars, some of which are more traditional. Again you look like an idiot. =/

I'm ignorant in many things. I agree. That's why I ask for explanation. Not for some dickhead like you to go around throwing "YOU'RE IGNORANT YOU IGNORANT IGNORAMUS" in my face. I know that. It just makes you an asshole. If you continue to be a dick, I'mma just ignore you. =]
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: otakuapprentice on February 09, 2009, 04:36:19 PM
Yo, watch your language.

long story short: the idea is good, but it wont work with the changes that would be needed.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 04:41:04 PM
My idea is a good one. It is to me at least. But everything probably starts from an unrealistic basis. Simply because I have an idea that is probably highly difficult to pull off, or even impossible, the best way to deal with those suggestions is to explain why. And your repetitive plaintive cries of "you don't know what this bar is for", just really come off as stupid. Seeing as I am the one who has the image of the bar in my mind, and it is my idea, I am pretty certain I know what "THIS" bar is for. It may not serve the same purpose as your bar, but contrary to your belief, not everything has to be 100% authentic to be enjoyable. So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun. Sometimes otaku-ness like yours can reach a point to which you just end up pissing off other people with your uncompromisable nature.

But you don't know what your bar is for, and have so far not explained it. If you gave us an explanation of where you're actually going with this idea, perhaps we'd have more we could work with. So far you haven't explained anything.

And in reply to "So the maid cafe isn't exactly like the ones in Akihabara. Who gives a flying f*ck? It's still fun.", some people might not care, but a good amount of people do, which includes me. As someone who is currently running and organizing this event, I do care that the maid cafe should emulate an actual maid cafe. If anything, it was THE main concern, that the maid cafe is an actual competent maid cafe that'd emulate ones that of Akihabara. Attendees who are aware of maid cafes care, as well, and their responses to our maid cafe's previous years reflect that.

Pyron may not have been the nicest person in explaining to you, but the points are the same and explained plenty reason why there are issues with your suggestion.

And you are misinformed as to my knowledge of both concepts which I presented. I knew perfectly well beforehand what exactly a host club really is, and I know in general, how a bar is supposed to present itself. However, I thought common sense would play into this, and you all would understand that I did not mean to take either concept in its literal and realistic form. As for the host club, I had the idea in mind, something similar to Ouran, simply because I know those forms of prostitution are illegal in California. However, if it's just serving drinks and food (similar to what the Maid cafe does, and similar to the Ouran anime) then it would be perfectly fine. But you seemed to get hung up on the literal translation of a Host bar, so I didn't pursue it.

Really, if you were knowledgeable, you would realize why it's a bad idea. A host club is not simply sharply-dressed guys serving you food and drinks. Though, if we did run a "host club" like that of what you're idealizing, it would still be impractical to do.

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The bar was the same way. I presented the general vague idea of a bar. A congregational space of service, and conversation, and you got hung up on the literal translation of the bar as well, pretty much saying, that if it isn't perfect, we might as well not do it. These are my ideas and they would be followed according to my views, and not yours, if they were accepted. Simply because it doesn't meet your specific standards doesn't mean it won't work. I just felt that most of you came off as rude. Especially you Jun, and definitely Pyron.

It's not even so much as "meeting standards" as it is "actually working". What you lose from trying to make this "bar" pretty much strips what would make it "a bar", other than the extremely vague surface of what a bar is-- "some place where you get drinks". It would be like having a maid cafe with just girls in maid uniforms... and end it there.

Also, I shouldn't have to assume that I need to kiss up to you in order for you to be able to read information. I did keep my posts neutral for the most part when replying to you, until you made it very clear that you have no clue what you're talking about, and persisting certain things when they were already clearly told to you for being impractical or undoable.

EDIT: Again, I hate posting right after Mikey. >:|
I didn't get any explanation from Pyron until after others began explaining it. =/

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Though, if we did run a "host club" like that of what you're idealizing, it would still be impractical to do.
You say that it's impractical, but like before you refrain from saying why exactly. This just leaves me confused and dissatisfied. You just say "if you were knowledgeable, you'd know". If it becomes clear that I am NOT knowledgeable, the common thing to do is to explain. Not say "you don't know what the hell you're doing, or saying, just go away."

Things such as the ballroom dancing, etc. It is certainly not like real ballroom dancing, but that doesn't keep us from having it. Simply because it doesn't aspire to be exactly like its real life counterpart doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered. That said, I had every intention to make it as realistic a bar as I possibly could, given what we have to work with.

You don't need to kiss up to me for me to understand your information. You're just simply very bad at conveying information.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: Long on February 09, 2009, 04:41:57 PM
Yo, watch your language.

long story short: the idea is good, but it wont work with the changes that would be needed.
I know. I don't even know why I'm continuing this conversation. Someone please lock this thread.
Title: Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
Post by: ewu on February 09, 2009, 04:44:06 PM
ok...thread has moved from its original intent. Find interest and it might just happen:) Now say someone or a wide variety of people revived this idea in a new thread, the interest would be established and a discussion to evolve this idea into a feasibility idea.

As such, I am locking this thread.