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FanimeCon: Participate, Join, Create => Ideas and Suggestions => Topic started by: SukebeStudios on February 09, 2010, 11:52:31 PM

Title: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: SukebeStudios on February 09, 2010, 11:52:31 PM
***
Mod edit: Rules

This is a potentially inflammatory topic and so I will be monitoring closely and zealously editing flames. I continue to reserve the right to lock this thread should the posts not comport with the mood of the Fanime Forums. Good luck.

your friendly neighborhood mod,
ewu
***

What about the idea of doing a comedy sketch where someone does a simple 30min-1 hour "Baptist Revival" like sermon, but all completely anime-themed? It would have...(albeit psychotic) a positive message about life, and citing examples from all different types of anime. All sermons would pretty much just be stories from different animes or mangas.

For example:
"Reading from the Book of Toriyama, Tezuka, and Akamatsu..."
"Praise be to Mangad." (Pronounced "ManGAHD" like praise be to god, cept manga. Just throwin em out there)
Or less offensive...
"Praise be to Desu." And they reply, "And also boku"

We could even have a "Anime Communion" where instead of communion wafers, we use sticks of Pocky. Instead of the "blood of christ" we use Ramune.

My original thought would be to do it on Sunday...but that MIGHT be asking a lot. I'm serious about this idea, it could be funny as hell. Just totally off the wall, goofy action.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival
Post by: PyronIkari on February 10, 2010, 01:06:40 AM
What about the idea of doing a comedy sketch where someone does a simple 30min-1 hour "Baptist Revival" like sermon, but all completely anime-themed? It would have...(albeit psychotic) a positive message about life, and citing examples from all different types of anime. All sermons would pretty much just be stories from different animes or mangas.

For example:
"Reading from the Book of Toriyama, Tezuka, and Akamatsu..."
"Praise be to Mangad." (Pronounced "ManGAHD" like praise be to god, cept manga. Just throwin em out there)
Or less offensive...
"Praise be to Desu." And they reply, "And also boku"

We could even have a "Anime Communion" where instead of communion wafers, we use sticks of Pocky. Instead of the "blood of christ" we use Ramune.

My original thought would be to do it on Sunday...but that MIGHT be asking a lot. I'm serious about this idea, it could be funny as hell. Just totally off the wall, goofy action.

Oh blasphemy... you are so funny.

You do realize how offensive this is to do right?
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival
Post by: SukebeStudios on February 10, 2010, 01:21:27 AM
There is no joke that does not offend someone.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival
Post by: ewu on February 10, 2010, 01:30:54 AM
I think idiots are funny, but I do not make public mockeries of them....

I await a response from those higher up.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival
Post by: sysadmin on February 10, 2010, 02:00:28 AM
This is a horrible idea and you shouldn't do it.

At this rate, we might as well allow a "hey, let's make fun of black people" panel.  Maybe you can do it while making slanty eyes.


Title: ABR locked?
Post by: SuperKawaiiNeko on February 10, 2010, 05:25:43 AM
Why was the anime baptist revival thread locked? I think it's a good idea with a lot of potential for humor, and don't see what's so offensive about the core concept. I think the staff overreacted here. I don't see it as a mockery, but as a parody; less like making fun of black people and more like making an anime rap. I admit that there is potential for offense if it's handled poorly, but there's no reason to assume that it would be. Just like there's no reason to assume that an anime rap would have the "N Word" in it.

The only people I can really see being offended at this sort of thing are uptight to begin with. Have you seen some of the other panels we have at this convention? We have a 4chan panel for god's sake, and that's not even the worst of the bunch. Hell, our entire convention already offends people, or am I the only one who's noticed the protestors out front every year?

Honestly, not allowing something like this because it might be offensive is akin to not allowing a yaoi panel because some people are offended by gays. It's all in good fun, guys, lighten up a bit.
Title: Re: ABR locked?
Post by: ewu on February 10, 2010, 07:44:22 AM
like I said in a PM. I am awaiting a nod from above to see if this a topic appropriate for the forum. Until then it remains locked.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival
Post by: Tony on February 10, 2010, 12:32:25 PM
I support Eric's decision to close this thread to keep the flaming to a minimum. This is because the initial reaction was so poor, regardless of the topic.

As for the idea itself: regardless of the other criticisms, it just doesn't sound funny, particularly clever, or well developed. I'd vote no.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: ewu on February 10, 2010, 05:20:16 PM
This thread has been reopened for discussion. Please note the rules in the OP.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: SukebeStudios on February 10, 2010, 06:01:56 PM
OK, After everything that has happened, I'm going to go into greater explanation over what I have in mind.
What about the idea of doing a comedy sketch where someone does a simple 30min-1 hour "Baptist Revival" like sermon, but all completely anime-themed? It would have...(albeit psychotic) a positive message about life, and citing examples from all different types of anime. All sermons would pretty much just be stories from different animes or mangas.
The more accurate thing to call it...would be the parody of a Televangelist. Raising their voice, acting off the wall and  just completely out there. I would only suggest a 1/2 hour to begin. Again, there would be NO mention of the bible or anything SERIOUSLY religious used in the sermons of the "Reverend." He would base his sermons off of the stories told in random animes and manga, not the bible. Any "quotes" used would be straight from the anime or manga, NOT THE BIBLE.

For example:
"Reading from the Book of Toriyama, Tezuka, and Akamatsu..."
"Praise be to Mangad." (Pronounced "ManGAHD" like praise be to god, cept manga. Just throwin em out there)
Or less offensive...
"Praise be to Desu." And they reply, "And also boku"
The Desu and Boku thing...eh, not that funny, I wouldn't do it. Mangahd? Same, poor taste, not needed.

We could even have a "Anime Communion" where instead of communion wafers, we use sticks of Pocky. Instead of the "blood of christ" we use Ramune.

My original thought would be to do it on Sunday...but that MIGHT be asking a lot. I'm serious about this idea, it could be funny as hell. Just totally off the wall, goofy action.
Now THIS...in hindsight, the Pocky/Ramune communion idea, is not only stupid because it has nothing to do with the Televangelists that I'm trying to PARODY, and it's even TOO offensive to me.

In short...this is a PARODY. This is not an attempt to intentionally offend anyone, unlike 4Chan...(which Fanime has hosted a panel for I might add.) Not to mention, there already has been something like this done at a convention, and they were using "God's name" and trying to portray an exagerated Reverend. I know that Fanime is NOT the same convention, but if something that is more innocent than something that's already been accepted somewhere else, does that make Fanime more conservative?

Yes, I was inspired by this video by the Nostalgia Critic, "Reverend Nut Job."
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/17009-reverend-nutjob (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/17009-reverend-nutjob)
 Yeah, I guess you can say I want to be a copycat. But that's why I wanted to make it totally anime themed, with no biblical images or quotes. That way it would be different and not a DIRECT rip-off.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Ayanami Rei First Child on February 10, 2010, 06:20:31 PM
I AM A CHRISTIAN, first off. Second of all I find that video aet least a little offensive, so I am glad your idea is DIFFERENT.

Now I think this idea has POTENTIAL. I mean even us Christians tend to make Biblical jokes, so what's wrong with a tastefully done parody, removing the really offensive stuff? Although if you want to be extra safe, maybe have it late Sunday or on Saturday or a day that is not Sunday.

I mean you have a Cthulu Panel for Heaven's sake! An ANCIENT EVIL ELDER CREATURE is being VOTED FOR PRESIDENT! Something that by it's very description would be blasphemous. Yet there is no great public outcry for that. There are some people who are offended by yaoi/yuri or pornography. Yet you have that as well. This panel isn't directly controversial, blasmphemous, etc. by comparison. It's just like the people who hate yaoi or porno don't watch the stuff. People who don't like Cthulu or 4-chan don't go to those panels either.

If it means having a tastefully and amusingly done panel such as this I would be willing to be directly involved to try to make it as least offensive as possible. ^^;
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: ewu on February 10, 2010, 06:21:30 PM
In short...this is a PARODY. This is not an attempt to intentionally offend anyone, unlike 4Chan...(which Fanime has hosted a panel for I might add.) Not to mention, there already has been something like this done at a convention, and they were using "God's name" and trying to portray an exagerated Reverend. I know that Fanime is NOT the same convention, but if something that is more innocent than something that's already been accepted somewhere else, does that make Fanime more conservative?

*mod hat off*

Let me differentiate, between the panels and this event. I see this as not a panel event, but a public event. That's the issue, panels people attend because they are interested, but on stage zero or whatever performance venue people are  exposed to something that is potentially very offensive, not at their own volition. Our buddies outside have the freedom to do that, and you have the freedom to do this right next to them (not that I encourage it). However, if its programing, then the con is sponsoring and giving a venue to this program. I am inclined to think that Fanime will NOT present, endorse, provide a venue, or even be connected to such an event at the risk or alienating dealers, advertisers, the city, the convention center, and attendees. You may have fun doing such an event but you do not undertake the same risks of a con this large.

My question is, what bearing does it have if Fanime is more liberal or conservative in this aspect? No two cons are alike and there are an unfathomable number of variable that come together to make a con, and you must respect them because you really have no way of appreciating them or understanding them without spending years planing this particular convention.

I am clearly biased as a mod, but anyone can proports to be like fox news is lying.  On the mod hat goes, the rules will apply.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: SukebeStudios on February 10, 2010, 06:23:24 PM
Then what if this was a "Panel Event" instead?
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: ewu on February 10, 2010, 06:26:39 PM
i don't know how that would work, but good luck.....Its very much so a performance but you can try. You lost the higher scrutiny that a public event has, but all the other considerations still hold true.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Ayanami Rei First Child on February 10, 2010, 06:29:52 PM
Then what if this was a "Panel Event" instead?
After what Ewu said, I have to say that this would be better served as a panel, rather then a live officially sponsored event. That seems to make more sense, and would take away a lot of the controversy surrounding this issue. I mean less people would watch it, but it sounds like it has a better chance of getting off the ground floor. Also if it DOES become popular, then you'll have a lot more weight to make it a public venue for next year. Not to mention you could also work out a lot of bugs with a smaller grouping.

Otherwise you might want to think of something else instead, and I would be more then happy to help if it deals with my religion ^^;
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: ewu on February 10, 2010, 06:33:55 PM
Point of information, a panel is still a live officially sponsored event.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: PyronIkari on February 10, 2010, 07:34:13 PM
Hmmm... how to go about this.

Okay, there's things that are blasphemous but not really offensive to most people. Saying "God, what a crappy car" is blasphemous, but no one is really going to take offense to that, except super Christians.

What this is though, is a direct mockery of the religion and the people within it. It doesn't matter that you are Christian and would not take offense at it, because the act in itself is EXTREMELY offensive, even if you call it parody. As sysadmin said, let's take it to a place and make it not religion.

Why don't you re-enact Roots, in blackface and all, but make it anime. And instead of KuntaKenta, it would be Mr.Popo from DragonBall? Do you think black people won't find that offensive?

Or let's re-enact Nanking, and instead of China... it would be Anime... like a hentai movie. Totally not offensive right?

You're specifically taking a major part of peoples' lives and culture, and turning it into a huge joke. You're mocking their style of living, and their beliefs and making out what they believe in to be nothing more than trivial and insignificant.

I personally hate religion. I think the idea of religion is stupid and pointless, but I respect other people enough to allow them to have their religion and believe in it. What you're doing is basically the exact opposite of what the protesters are doing. They're trying to promote and force religion down other peoples' throats. You're mocking them, and telling them their religion is stupid and trivial.

Would I be offended by this? Absolutely not, but even I recognize how incredibly offensive this is to other people. Now...

Let's say Fanime has this. Let's say you somehow convince Fanime into doing this. How is it going to look on Fanime's part when religious people that attend fanime, or religious parents thinking about letting their kids go to Fanime, see this in Fanime's line up? Do you think these parents are just going to go "Oh, this convention is mocking my beliefs, but that's fine, you can go kids."

I don't see how you can possibly see this as not offensive?
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: CaptainYossarian on February 10, 2010, 08:53:28 PM
This has eerie echoes of the time I did a presentation of the Southern Defense of Slavery. In character. Take it from someone who's been there: don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. The Irony seems so obvious now. It won't be afterwards.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Jerry on February 11, 2010, 09:45:54 AM
whether its a live performance or a panel - keep in mind that you will get some resistance from either side.

from what it seems like - you will have more nay sayers and no matter how much your try to impose the humorous aspects--- it will likely be offensive to someone.

heck there are people out there who find Anime in general offensive--- and yet 14K+ people come to fanime.

ironically I've never thought of Fanime as a religious or politically charged event - so throwing that into the mix will probably have varying results.

I would suggesting getting the support and staff to support such an event/panel and go with it if your that confident in your humor delivering abilities but also have the poise and composure in case you get heckled by people who take offense from it.

just like how rovers have to deal with the protests every year.... we do our best to keep it civil on both sides.
The Rover staff =/= anti riot squad

keep that in mind. :)
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Haru on February 11, 2010, 03:23:23 PM
I think if executed properly this could be very funny. It will be a parody and as such many people could find it offensive, but I fail to see the problem in that. Everyone finds something offensive, and in a convention that openly screens and distributes gay and hetero sexual pornography is a little religious parody really going to scare anyone away? Off the top of my head I can think of three anime that could be called blasphemous simply for their use of christianesk religions, but I don't see angry parents storming out of the D. Grey Man panel and causing pandemonium, do you?

Here is an idea if you want to make it more PC. Change "Baptist sermon" to "infomercial" to remove any association to religion one could pull from it. You can still use the same speech patterns and mannerisms but because it is an infomercial parody no one can play the "you are stomping on my beliefs" card... unless there is a cultist following of Billy Mays fans that I am unaware of.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: PyronIkari on February 11, 2010, 06:32:40 PM
I think if executed properly this could be very funny. It will be a parody and as such many people could find it offensive, but I fail to see the problem in that. Everyone finds something offensive, and in a convention that openly screens and distributes gay and hetero sexual pornography is a little religious parody really going to scare anyone away? Off the top of my head I can think of three anime that could be called blasphemous simply for their use of christianesk religions, but I don't see angry parents storming out of the D. Grey Man panel and causing pandemonium, do you?

Here is an idea if you want to make it more PC. Change "Baptist sermon" to "infomercial" to remove any association to religion one could pull from it. You can still use the same speech patterns and mannerisms but because it is an infomercial parody no one can play the "you are stomping on my beliefs" card... unless there is a cultist following of Billy Mays fans that I am unaware of.

You missed my point about blasphemy earlier.

Lots of things are blasphemous, but there's a huge difference between something small and something major. Anime use religious references all the time. Some go on to even create stories and ideas within their use of religious references. That's different than completely mocking the religion as a whole and making the idea of that religion into a joke.

Yes, everything is offensive to someone, but this isn't about doing something that may offend someone. This is doing something that IS offensive and then saying "well everything is offensive to someone". Anything can be funny, and this could easily be made funny. But it won't change that it's still purposely offending a religion, as well as all of those that believe in that religion.

And... changing the name is supposed to some how... not do that? If it walks like a duck, and quack's like a duck... but you call in a rabbit, it's not a duck?
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Haru on February 11, 2010, 07:28:48 PM

You missed my point about blasphemy earlier.

Lots of things are blasphemous, but there's a huge difference between something small and something major. Anime use religious references all the time. Some go on to even create stories and ideas within their use of religious references. That's different than completely mocking the religion as a whole and making the idea of that religion into a joke.

Yes, everything is offensive to someone, but this isn't about doing something that may offend someone. This is doing something that IS offensive and then saying "well everything is offensive to someone". Anything can be funny, and this could easily be made funny. But it won't change that it's still purposely offending a religion, as well as all of those that believe in that religion.

And... changing the name is supposed to some how... not do that? If it walks like a duck, and quack's like a duck... but you call in a rabbit, it's not a duck?

So your telling me that a manor of speech is so synonymous and fundamental to a religion, that using it for anything other than a sermon is mocking the entirety of that religion's values and beliefs?

How is he purposefully offending a religion? That seems to be a matter of intent. His intent is to make a comedy skit based around the parody of a religious service. If it is mocking as you say, then that would imply some malicious intent, which there is no evidence for. If you want to interpret his actions as purposefully hurtful, that is your problem. It seems somewhat narrow minded to instantly label parody as insulting just because it is based on a religious practice.

Calling something different further distances the panel from scrutiny. We aren't talking ducks VS rabbits, this is the difference between lions and tigers. They sounds slightly different, they look slightly different, but in the end they are both in the same family. If he really is marketing it as a televangelist type panel, the the difference from an infomercial and the programs in question isn't too far off. One wants you to buy salvation, the other wants to you buy an ultra absorbent towel. The concept is the same. If he pulls in the southern baptist church style, then it isn't anything more than a rally. Drop religious references such as god, hell, heaven, ect, and you are left with a football rally. A room of people that share similar beliefs rejoicing about what they love. Just because two things sound the same doesn't mean they are. Are white rappers raciest because they sound like black rappers?
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: ewu on February 11, 2010, 07:56:28 PM
Back on topic. The semantics of offensiveness are interesting, but all discussing it will do is get this thread locked or deleted.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Gwydion on February 11, 2010, 09:36:28 PM
You know, anime-style informercials could be pretty funny.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: SukebeStudios on February 11, 2010, 09:38:17 PM
I really only called it "Anime Baptist Revival" because for some reason when I thought of those televangelists, I thought Baptist. That was from my own ignorance, so if someone could tell me what the PROPER term or name would be, please, let me know.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Jerry on February 12, 2010, 09:00:31 AM
this is where "assumptions" can really get you into trouble
again theres  fine fine line between  humor and offensive ignorance -

keep in mind Fanime is a family and good natured convention - when you dance along the lines of religion and politics your dealing with a potential bull in a china shop.

then again i dont know if any other panels in previous years of stirred this much potential for a debate.
that and you really have to know how to deliver your version of "comedy".
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: xaxafour on February 14, 2010, 01:50:57 PM
I don't think you should try to parody a particular religion so closely, because that's probably offensive and wrong.

If you wanted to hold a general anime-themed religious meeting, I think it would be fine, because you're generally free to practice whatever religion you want to, and you're allowed to believe in whatever god, anime, etc. that your want to, but you don't need to take someone else's religion and make a joke out of it.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Yuu on February 14, 2010, 02:51:40 PM
 It's called 'parody".

 It's funny, do it. Denying everyone their right to do something because it will offend someone is what made Sakuracon the worst convention ever (while Fanime is my favorite for being so easy going) please, PLEASE do not become like SC.  It's a slippery slope.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: Nina Star 9 on February 14, 2010, 04:04:48 PM
I don't think that the original idea would work, for all the reasons already stated.


Though, I do think that the infomercial idea would work if you purged all thoughts of it being derived from your original idea. It would work best in one of two ways -- either as a panel where you got it started and then invited the audience to participate and improv their own infomercials, or as some sort of filler on Stage Zero between acts (maybe film a few and they can play them on the screen if there is ever a time where they need some material while setting up for the next act?). It would be fun to use various anime tropes and memes and sell them (I have here an interdimensional hammerspace bag! It can hold unlimited amounts of anything and everything! Easy to hide under skirts! But, for a limited time, I'll give you two -- that's right -- TWO hammerspace pouches for the price of one! You can now carry TWO of our universes with you everywhere, with plenty of room to spare! ...not the best, but it gives you an idea of what I mean). I don't see it really catching on (and the improv panel might turn into chaos), but if you think about it that way, you might be able to get it to work.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: BrightHeart76 on February 14, 2010, 10:55:07 PM
I just don't think it sounds funny.  There's an awful lot of debate about offending people and so on...but the idea itself is what we should be talking about, right?  I mean I'm no expert, but I know what makes me laugh.  I wouldn't avoid this because it was offensive, but I wouldn't go because it doesn't sound funny.
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: sysadmin on February 22, 2010, 12:16:10 PM
I'm only referring to the revised idea as stated.

There is a fundamental rule in comedy:
You can get away with anything, as long as it is funny.

There is a corollary to this rule:
If it is not funny, it will be awful.


At this point in the thread, you have a one concept of a character.  In terms of writing, this is pretty flimsy.
It sounds like one of those "Mr. Cant-Make-Change Man gets a job as a grocery cashier" sketches: we get the joke from the title.

Maybe with a lot of work, you could convert this to a 3 minute sketch on Kids in the Hall, or maybe a 5 minute sketch on Saturday Night Live.
Even then, it's going to be very tricky to stretch this to a 30 or 60 minute bit.

Right now, it just comes off as "not really funny".  And if it's not really funny, then it's going to get perceived as offensive.
We can debate in other threads whether it is right or wrong that we should be offended by satire (and I'm sure someone will take me up on that).

But my point is not about offensiveness.  It is solely about "is it funny".  My current vote is "no".
Title: Re: Anime Baptist Revival *Mod Edit: please note special rules*
Post by: boots01 on March 23, 2010, 03:13:38 AM
personally, i think this could be very funny, BUT, i can't honestly see it extending for even 30 minutes.  i've been on stage most of my life, both in front of and behind the scenes and i can tell you that unless you have extremely good material, you will lose your audience after only a few minutes.  i have to agree with sysadmin here and say that 5 minutes is about all you'd be able to realistically do, in my opinion.

now, that said, i'd love to see it.  i was doing comedy of errors by Shakespeare a number of years ago and at one point, one of the characters has an exorcism performed on him.  at our first rehearsal, when we performed that scene, the person playing the priest who performs the exorcism dropped into a southern baptist televangelist accent and gave his line "i cast the out vile demon".  needless to say, everyone cracked up laughing because it was so well done and over the top funny.  however, while it was funny the first time, it would not have been so during the actual performance and the director required the lines be read properly.

if we think about it, while that one line was funny, if the actor had tried to perform the rest of his lines with the same accent, the part would have gone from being funny to offensive very quickly.  the whole "he's trying too hard to be funny for the sake of being funny, and it's obvious, and because of that, it's not funny (aka tom green/jackass)" thing.  this idea has that same potential and it would be very difficult to not run into it.  keeping it very short, like a commercial, would reduce the chances of that but your material would still need to be top notch and writing even 5 minutes of comedy is not easy.