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FanimeCon Events and Discussionmentarianism => General Convention Discussion => Topic started by: InsaneChan on February 22, 2014, 01:06:51 AM

Title: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on February 22, 2014, 01:06:51 AM
I feel like there are a lot of problems with the conventions being the same weekend. Fanime trying to run TWO cons at once seems like a waste of resources that, ultimately, affect Fanime itself. Ever since management shifted, and they started doing two cons, Fanime has been much more disappointing to me. I've been attending since 2004, and the con was always amazing those first handful of years I went. But now things have changed dramatically.

Heck, Clockwork Alchemy already has a full website launch, and has since January. Now we're three months away and still no Fanime site launch or any projected date yet. I feel that with trying to create a successful steam punk con every year, both cons are not getting the attention and resources they deserve.

Personally, I feel that if the cons were different weekends, organizers could focus more on each separate con and things would run more smoothly.

The worst of it is that I am paying good money for Fanime. I'm paying for an anime convention, and don't appreciate my money being used for another con I am not interested in. I realize that many people are fans of both, and I myself used to like steam punk quite a lot, but it seems extremely unfair to attendee's to get divided resources.

Is there anyone at Fanime who can address these issues?
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: thepsynergist on February 22, 2014, 02:17:43 AM
At least you get free admission included with your Fanime ticket.  I agree that it feels like Fanime is a ghost of its former self, I still enjoy it.  I suppose that by them running two cons, there's a little bit of something for everyone to enjoy. 
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: echoshadow on February 22, 2014, 12:16:46 PM
From what we been told in the days after Fanime was over in the feedback chaos,  is that Clockwork has it's own staff. And that Fanime's problems was of its own lack of staff/in for seen problems. Fanime only helped in advertising Clockwork.  So we been told.

Of course that may or may not be true. But that was the story they told us at the feedback panel and in the feedback forums.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Admiral Donuts on February 22, 2014, 01:02:03 PM
I'll admit, this thread makes me curious about how much reg money goes to Clockwork. It's probably not a simple split since both cons share some resources (housing, shuttle, webspace, etc).

I know not EVERY dollar I spend on reg goes towards something I personally take part in, but when there's a whole other con under the same financial umbrella... eh...
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on February 22, 2014, 02:06:04 PM
At least you get free admission included with your Fanime ticket.  I agree that it feels like Fanime is a ghost of its former self, I still enjoy it.  I suppose that by them running two cons, there's a little bit of something for everyone to enjoy.

I mean, I feel like this is part of the problem. It's not necessarily "free admission," because you're paying for it with your Fanime registration. When you go to register for Clockwork, it takes you to the Fanime reg page. So this means they're using your money from Fanime reg to run Clockwork. I understand the advantages of having "a little bit for everyone," but that really shouldn't mean a whole different con being run alongside Fanime. This is also a problem for people who are fans of both things, because they would not be able to do all the things they want to at both cons. There might be wonderful panels and events that take place at the same time at both cons, and people would have the stress of just not being able to make it to them.

Ultimately, I just don't think it's fair for everyone, fans of one thing and also for fans of both.

From what we been told in the days after Fanime was over in the feedback chaos,  is that Clockwork has it's own staff. And that Fanime's problems was of its own lack of staff/in for seen problems. Fanime only helped in advertising Clockwork.  So we been told.

Of course that may or may not be true. But that was the story they told us at the feedback panel and in the feedback forums.

If they say so, I guess there's really not much we can do to about it. If that is truly the case, as they say, then the main issue is still the money they're using for it. Also, it's more than them just being advertised by Fanime. Their registration is the same, so they're definitely being run together by Fanime itself.

I'll admit, this thread makes me curious about how much reg money goes to Clockwork. It's probably not a simple split since both cons share some resources (housing, shuttle, webspace, etc).

I know not EVERY dollar I spend on reg goes towards something I personally take part in, but when there's a whole other con under the same financial umbrella... eh...

Yeah, you're right that I also don't do every thing I pay for at Fanime, but that's simply due to not every person being involved in every aspect of the anime/Japanese media/culture spectrum. However, I'm just concerned that the money that should be going towards making Fanime a great experience every year, is being divided for a completely unrelated con. I don't believe it's a 50% split, but any amount is too much.

TLDR; If they want a steampunk con, they should have a steampunk con. But it should have separate registration.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: ttyls on February 25, 2014, 04:09:49 PM
Good point by the OP. I've always wondered why Fanime's quality has been slipping so dramatically every year despite reg prices (regular badge and artist alley, I'm sure it's the same for other events like swap meet, dealers, etc.) either being the same or increasing each year. Fan support is always strong as ever, so that's not the problem. Knowing where the money goes to would be very helpful, especially with the concerns raised by everyone else in this thread.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Arkham on February 25, 2014, 10:14:48 PM
Clockwork Alchemy has its own staff, and of course brings in its own attendees.
We are not taking any attention away from the Staff that focuses on FanimeCon.

I cannot speak to whatever issues may be delaying FanimeCon's website launch, as I
have not been involved with their web team. I only worked on the Clockwork Alchemy website.

Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: ttyls on February 26, 2014, 08:36:46 AM
I think the problem is less about whether staff is split or not, and more about how the money from registration is split if both cons are using the same reg, if I'm reading OP's posts correctly.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: SquishyK on February 26, 2014, 03:53:12 PM
I think Clockwork Alchemy is overall a greater asset to Fanime. By combining efforts they have opened up additional much needed housing options for Fanime attendees. As for the money issue I'm sure that housing a convention at DoubleTree is considerably less expensive then at the San Jose convention center and Fanime draws in big name international guests while most of Clockwork Alchemy's guests tend to be local favorites. So I'm sure that Fanime is getting the lion's share of reg money. Not to mention that most of Fanime's big issues (dissemination of timely and accurate information, over crowding, insufficient housing) are not likely to be solved by simply throwing more money at the problem. In fact I'm consistently astounded by the number of people who complain about reg prices considering they still pale in comparison to Comic Con, and Anime Expo (considering you have to purchase addition admission for events). Of course this year they are allowing attendees to select their main reason for registering (Fanime or Clockwork Alchemy) so I'm sure they will get a good idea of how the money should be distributed as to not disadvantage either convention. I do find it a bit troubling that Fanime still doesn't have their website up and running. Anime Expo already has registration up for AMVs, Masquerade, and Exhibition hall (to name a few) and that convention isn't even until July!
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: DangerHeart on February 26, 2014, 04:56:30 PM
I think Clockwork Alchemy is overall a greater asset to Fanime. By combining efforts they have opened up additional much needed housing options for Fanime attendees. As for the money issue I'm sure that housing a convention at DoubleTree is considerably less expensive then at the San Jose convention center and Fanime draws in big name international guests while most of Clockwork Alchemy's guests tend to be local favorites. So I'm sure that Fanime is getting the lion's share of reg money. Not to mention that most of Fanime's big issues (dissemination of timely and accurate information, over crowding, insufficient housing) are not likely to be solved by simply throwing more money at the problem. In fact I'm consistently astounded by the number of people who complain about reg prices considering they still pale in comparison to Comic Con, and Anime Expo (considering you have to purchase addition admission for events). Of course this year they are allowing attendees to select their main reason for registering (Fanime or Clockwork Alchemy) so I'm sure they will get a good idea of how the money should be distributed as to not disadvantage either convention. I do find it a bit troubling that Fanime still doesn't have their website up and running. Anime Expo already has registration up for AMVs, Masquerade, and Exhibition hall (to name a few) and that convention isn't even until July!

Heck even SacAnime(which runs twice a year) changed the site at least two weeks after the last con to reflect the new dates, and they've already started announcing guests and have artist alley sold out and that con isn't until August. I think this is the slowest Fanime has ever started.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on February 27, 2014, 11:15:13 PM
I think that with everything brought up, it can be agreed that the main issue is the combined registration. You have Fanime attendees paying about as much as usual (maybe a bit more), and then the Clockwork attendees who don't care about Fanime spending $50-$60 for a smaller con. To be honest, I just don't find this very logical. I know Fanime considers this an investment opportunity, but I still don't see why they just can't have separate registration?

Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: cutiebunny on February 28, 2014, 11:34:52 PM
It always bothers me when I see these topics and no one from Fanime staff addresses it with a valid response.  I grow weary of the "It's proprietary/confidential" responses I see on these topics, if there is one at all.  I could understand if we were asking about staffing at a particular area at a particular time of day, but things like "How will you rectify the 6 hour registration line?" are valid concerns that should be properly addressed. 

Depending on the problem, throwing more money at the problem would help.  You could hire full time staff.  Or you could hop on board the 21st century train and buy scanners so that all attendees need to do is show a barcode and their registration data would pop up. You know, things that every other large convention is already doing.  I don't know about everyone else, but I would gladly pay an additional $10 to aide in purchasing the technology and equipment needed to prevent me from spending another 6 hours of my life in line.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: SpiritOfKairi on March 01, 2014, 02:25:12 PM
It always bothers me when I see these topics and no one from Fanime staff addresses it with a valid response.  I grow weary of the "It's proprietary/confidential" responses I see on these topics, if there is one at all.  I could understand if we were asking about staffing at a particular area at a particular time of day, but things like "How will you rectify the 6 hour registration line?" are valid concerns that should be properly addressed. 

While the answers about the registration lines have been vague and dodgey at best, I do think that things will be better this year for one reason - registration won't be at the Fairmont.  I don't know how long you have been going to Fanime, but for the last 3 years whenever a major event has been held at that hotel, it doesn't go well.  In 2013 it was registration; 2012 it was the swap meet where you had to wait for 45 minutes to snake through 2 rooms, and if you wanted to buy something in room 1 while in room 2, you had to go back in line all over again; in 2011 it was the B&W Ball where you had to wait for an hour to enter a cramped room without bathrooms, and if you had to go, you had to leave the room and wait in line all over again.  After moving these events to places that are not the Fairmont (back to the CC for the swap meet and the Parkside Hall for the ball), things have run MUCH smoother.  Since registration is back at the CC this year and the only issue that location has faced is the Day 0 power outage of 2012, I think things might just be alright.  (Could also just be wishful thinking on my part, but judging from previous years it makes sense with how things have gone.)

Depending on the problem, throwing more money at the problem would help.  You could hire full time staff.  Or you could hop on board the 21st century train and buy scanners so that all attendees need to do is show a barcode and their registration data would pop up. You know, things that every other large convention is already doing.  I don't know about everyone else, but I would gladly pay an additional $10 to aide in purchasing the technology and equipment needed to prevent me from spending another 6 hours of my life in line.

I think many others would gladly pay a few dollars more for assurance that the line would move faster.  However, suggestions like this have been made for years, and so far nothing has been done.  I think the idea to charge $10 more for mailed badges has been suggested since around 2009-2010, but Fanime hasn't done it for "security reasons".  It's definitely a nice thought that they would implement stuff like this in the near future, but it probably won't happen.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: cutiebunny on March 01, 2014, 06:56:45 PM
While the answers about the registration lines have been vague and dodgey at best, I do think that things will be better this year for one reason - registration won't be at the Fairmont.  I don't know how long you have been going to Fanime, but for the last 3 years whenever a major event has been held at that hotel, it doesn't go well.

I have, since 2010, gone through registration late Friday morning.  Since 2010, my wait time has doubled every year, regardless of where registration is held.  In 2010, I waited 45 minutes.  In 2011, it was 1.5 hours.  In 2012, I spent 3 hours in line.  In 2013, I made a last minute decision to attend Animazement instead, but had I not, I'm sure I would have been waiting six hours like many others did. I don't think that, in terms of registration, the location is the issue, but perhaps it boils down to staffing and/or registration method.

What bothers me is that nothing sounds like it's going to change.  When Fanime higher ups tell you that, despite the 6 hour wait time, last minute guest announcements and a guest list that was largely lackluster, it was a great convention, you not only question where exactly the convention is heading, but if you want to be there for it.


I think many others would gladly pay a few dollars more for assurance that the line would move faster.  However, suggestions like this have been made for years, and so far nothing has been done.  I think the idea to charge $10 more for mailed badges has been suggested since around 2009-2010, but Fanime hasn't done it for "security reasons".  It's definitely a nice thought that they would implement stuff like this in the near future, but it probably won't happen.

I understand why Fanime won't send badges in the mail and I remember the last year AX tried it, it was problematic.  My badge arrived late on Day 0, but I had already left for the con earlier that morning.  Send out the badges too early and people will counterfeit them, and send them out too late and attendees will leave before their badges arrive.

Fanime will eventually need to decide how big it really wants to be and if it has the resources to sustain those numbers.  Perhaps having another con running concurrently with Fanime is a good way to solve that, but it seems unfair that attendees are not able to select where their funds will go. 
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Admiral Donuts on March 01, 2014, 08:53:41 PM
I understand why Fanime won't send badges in the mail and I remember the last year AX tried it, it was problematic.  My badge arrived late on Day 0, but I had already left for the con earlier that morning.  Send out the badges too early and people will counterfeit them, and send them out too late and attendees will leave before their badges arrive.

I think with the new way Fanime does badges (plastic badge with personal info on a sticker) could lend itself to mailing badges out. Send out the sticker then issuing the badge at the con, if you don't get your badge in the mail then can re-print it at the con.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on March 01, 2014, 10:41:25 PM
While we're on the topic, I'd just like to chime in that I actually personally find mailing out badges way too problematic. There are so many things that could go wrong (badges not arriving on time, badges not arriving at all, post office issues, etc etc). Furthermore, people may show up and claim their badges never arrived, get a new one, only to have lied and give their now free extra badge to a friend (or worse, scalp it at a discounted rate and make a profit). This could potentially just lose way too much money for the con.

I personally think that they just need a better system for distributing badges at-con. Last year was indeed a nightmare, and when my group and I finally made it to a window, the girl was very nice, but very chatty; stopping her work to talk to us about something completely random and therefor my badge took at least five minutes to distribute. The majority of this was her just standing there and making small talk. I remember thinking, "Geez, no wonder we were in line for five hours!"

I don't have an immediate solution to offer, but I believe Fanime has the resources to create a more efficient system.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Purelovely on March 04, 2014, 09:30:33 AM
I hate to say this and it may be a bit harsh but I feel like Clockwork Alchemy is a leech upon Fanime. I'm sure that others feel this way as well.

Clockwork may have their own staff but they are taking up some hotel rooms and making the registration lines even worse. I'm sure there are people who ONLY go to that con and they must feel the same way about Fanime. It's unfair to both cons. Fanime had Memorial weekend first. Make Clockwork Alchemy take another weekend.

Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: SquishyK on March 04, 2014, 11:02:50 AM
I hate to say this and it may be a bit harsh but I feel like Clockwork Alchemy is a leech upon Fanime. I'm sure that others feel this way as well.

Clockwork may have their own staff but they are taking up some hotel rooms and making the registration lines even worse. I'm sure there are people who ONLY go to that con and they must feel the same way about Fanime. It's unfair to both cons. Fanime had Memorial weekend first. Make Clockwork Alchemy take another weekend.

um… you DO realize that Clockwork Alchemy has their own registration lines right? AND you can get your badge at Clockwork Alchemy even if you are only going for Fanime. Just saying'

Another advantage of Clockwork Alchemy is that the evening dances at Fanime had started to get extremely crowded and they have to make people wait in line to get in. Clockwork Alchemy added more evening entertainment to help alleviate some of this over crowding. My friends have been quite pleased with Emperor Norton's Ball these past two years, to the point that we don't even go to Fanime's Black and White Ball anymore. Also there was a point where 3-4 tables in the Dealer's Room where dedicated to steampunk, this might not sound like a lot but I'm sure they have been turning down many more and it was reducing the number of anime venders that could sell at Fanime. Now they have somewhere more appropriate to go freeing up space at Fanime.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Purelovely on March 04, 2014, 01:58:51 PM
I hate to say this and it may be a bit harsh but I feel like Clockwork Alchemy is a leech upon Fanime. I'm sure that others feel this way as well.

Clockwork may have their own staff but they are taking up some hotel rooms and making the registration lines even worse. I'm sure there are people who ONLY go to that con and they must feel the same way about Fanime. It's unfair to both cons. Fanime had Memorial weekend first. Make Clockwork Alchemy take another weekend.

um… you DO realize that Clockwork Alchemy has their own registration lines right? AND you can get your badge at Clockwork Alchemy even if you are only going for Fanime. Just saying'

Another advantage of Clockwork Alchemy is that the evening dances at Fanime had started to get extremely crowded and they have to make people wait in line to get in. Clockwork Alchemy added more evening entertainment to help alleviate some of this over crowding. My friends have been quite pleased with Emperor Norton's Ball these past two years, to the point that we don't even go to Fanime's Black and White Ball anymore. Also there was a point where 3-4 tables in the Dealer's Room where dedicated to steampunk, this might not sound like a lot but I'm sure they have been turning down many more and it was reducing the number of anime venders that could sell at Fanime. Now they have somewhere more appropriate to go freeing up space at Fanime.

I hope they do. I've never been aware of that fact. It seems in the past they just combined it all into one badge pickup area. I hope more people use the Clockwork area to pick up badges this year.

I still think to be fair to both cons that Fanime should remain Memorial weekend and Clockwork needs to be moved to a different time. If they did then maybe they could make Clockwork into a bigger con for their fans.

Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Kahluah on March 04, 2014, 03:52:03 PM
I hate to say this and it may be a bit harsh but I feel like Clockwork Alchemy is a leech upon Fanime. I'm sure that others feel this way as well.

Clockwork may have their own staff but they are taking up some hotel rooms and making the registration lines even worse. I'm sure there are people who ONLY go to that con and they must feel the same way about Fanime. It's unfair to both cons. Fanime had Memorial weekend first. Make Clockwork Alchemy take another weekend.



um… you DO realize that Clockwork Alchemy has their own registration lines right? AND you can get your badge at Clockwork Alchemy even if you are only going for Fanime. Just saying'

Another advantage of Clockwork Alchemy is that the evening dances at Fanime had started to get extremely crowded and they have to make people wait in line to get in. Clockwork Alchemy added more evening entertainment to help alleviate some of this over crowding. My friends have been quite pleased with Emperor Norton's Ball these past two years, to the point that we don't even go to Fanime's Black and White Ball anymore. Also there was a point where 3-4 tables in the Dealer's Room where dedicated to steampunk, this might not sound like a lot but I'm sure they have been turning down many more and it was reducing the number of anime venders that could sell at Fanime. Now they have somewhere more appropriate to go freeing up space at Fanime.

I hope they do. I've never been aware of that fact. It seems in the past they just combined it all into one badge pickup area. I hope more people use the Clockwork area to pick up badges this year.

I still think to be fair to both cons that Fanime should remain Memorial weekend and Clockwork needs to be moved to a different time. If they did then maybe they could make Clockwork into a bigger con for their fans.

I kind of agree that if Clockwork is moved more people might attend it. I would love to attend Clockwork, but I cant handle two cons on the same weekend so I usually opt out for Fanime
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: YiShu on March 04, 2014, 07:45:38 PM
I agree that Fanime or Clockwork needs to have someone respond and clearly say if Clockwork is an expense on Fanime and or draining them of resources.  If Clockwork Alchemy is a drain then it was a nice try but time to go. 

The DoubleTree was not even a quarter full before Clockwork started using it, I know that in talking with some of the Clockwork Staff that they spend there own money out of pocket to bring things to the con and dont have much money for guests so I doubt that its costing Fanime much if they are paying.  I went to the clockwork hiss and purr last year and they had enough attendees that they are probably making more money for Fanime than they are costing.

I dont like that people are saying things like Fanime was here first.  I had to listen to my older brothers friends say the same thing about how Fanime was trying to kill baycon and how they were here first and Fanime should find a new weekend.  If Clockwork is not hurting Fanime financially or taking up all there time then they are defiantly helping it.   

They should speak up and tell us so we know and can stop worrying if we dont need to.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: echoshadow on March 04, 2014, 10:48:10 PM
Guess you where not there at the feedback panel at the end of Fanime. The board of directors answered the same exact questions.

It may not be word for word but the gist is this.
What they said, Clockwork Alchemy has it's own staff, finances, etc. What Fanime does share is it's web support and it's promotion.

So there you have it. That is at lest what they told the people at the room.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on March 05, 2014, 05:42:32 PM
Guess you where not there at the feedback panel at the end of Fanime. The board of directors answered the same exact questions.

It may not be word for word but the gist is this.
What they said, Clockwork Alchemy has it's own staff, finances, etc. What Fanime does share is it's web support and it's promotion.

So there you have it. That is at lest what they told the people at the room.

I sort of have a difficult time believing that what they said is %100 true. So if they have their own finances, those finances come from table renting. I'm curious if that is enough to cover an entire con/web support/etc.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: heeroyuy135 on March 05, 2014, 10:14:30 PM
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone involved in both Fanime and Clockwork came together to answer questions and straighten things out? I wonder...
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: CatToy on March 06, 2014, 05:01:34 PM
Guess you where not there at the feedback panel at the end of Fanime. The board of directors answered the same exact questions.

It may not be word for word but the gist is this.
What they said, Clockwork Alchemy has it's own staff, finances, etc. What Fanime does share is it's web support and it's promotion.

So there you have it. That is at lest what they told the people at the room.

If that's true, then the sharing of web support is pretty uneven, don'cha think?
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: dfens on March 06, 2014, 05:07:40 PM
Probably going to get some flak for my posting and the some people will say since I heard it form a 3rd party and not from something I learned personally but I know the source and the answers actually sound totally believable.

I have a friend who volunteers for Fanime and has done so for many years, they aren't some low level position, they have access to things that your average person who works a line or as a rover etc don't have privy too. Now I don't want to give out their name since I don't want to put them on the spot but I've asked them these same questions during a dinner discussion when the subject of last years Fanime came up and they responded to some of the complaints that were voiced.

Yes Clockwork Alchemy is taking money from Fanime, if they tell you otherwise they just don't want to admit it or they are telling a boldface lie. You see they take some of the money from Fanime to use for whatever they need it for. As for what specifically I didn't ask in detail. How much money? They didn't say I didn't press the issue.

Which has the result that someones budget for this or that is now smaller. Example the person told me that their music guest budget is only so much as it is, and since they have to pay airfare round trip for the guest or guests, put them up in a hotel, and shuttle them around and feed them it costs a arm and a leg. Now with this other con, extra money meant for guests or whatever else is even less. So if things seem lacking or they could have booked a specific guest but didn't have enough funds then that guest can't appear or something else had to suffer.

Which brought up another question why are most of the guests pretty lame for such a big con. They just don't have the budget to pay for them to bring them from Japan and or scheduling issues with the said guest. That's why it's the same old same old US dub actors while such and such con gets this well know talent for their guest.

As for the registration cluster F*** last year the staff and people in charge know about it. This person told me this year they plan to hire professionals to do the registration, which I hope they follow through because waiting another 3 1/2 to 4 hours again to get my badge is BS. The time I wasted I could have worked more hours which I don't need to but could have been more comfortable at work then stuck in a never ending line to no where, to pay for a mailed badge or some more staff/better equipment. You think after doing the Con for so many years they would have it down and not screw things up, and know what works and doesn't works. All I know is that everyone I know and talked to said that if the lines continue to be just as bad this year and onward then we will just stop going to Fanime all together. And I think people flying in or who travel long distances will do the same. They better do something before they start to loose attendees. I know Japan Expo at least got the registration and line issues squared away their first year, as for the events, location, and things to see/do their is need for much improvement.

The final thing which confirmed my suspicions about why the Steam Punk Con? As a person who pays for a Anime Con I want to attend a Anime Con. Not this or that whatever scene/theme, or whatever else they try to force in to get people through the door. So why the change and addition of Clockwork Alchemy a Steam Punk Con?

I'll tell you some of the people involved where also upset but couldn't do anything about it. You see who ever is the big shot in charge at the very top for Fanime wanted to put on his resume that he ran 2 cons at the same time. And to hell if put a strain on the Con that has being going on for more than a decade and is the primary bread winner that attracts all the attendees. So nothing more than the sole benefit for one individual vs the attendees in general.

It was hilarious that they had a off site registration for the Clockwork Alchemy which was also valid for Fanime, where the line was 15-20 minutes but at the Fairmont it was a average of 3-6 stinking hours. Oh it was a short line offsite by the airport because almost no one knew about it, so some got lucky while the majority of people where screwed.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: SpiritOfKairi on March 06, 2014, 05:54:23 PM
Yes Clockwork Alchemy is taking money from Fanime, if they tell you otherwise they just don't want to admit it or they are telling a boldface lie. You see they take some of the money from Fanime to use for whatever they need it for. As for what specifically I didn't ask in detail. How much money? They didn't say I didn't press the issue.

So no specifics or even a ball park number?  That's convenient...  So we still know next to nothing as far as that's concerned.

As for the registration cluster F*** last year the staff and people in charge know about it. This person told me this year they plan to hire professionals to do the registration, which I hope they follow through because waiting another 3 1/2 to 4 hours again to get my badge is BS. The time I wasted I could have worked more hours which I don't need to but could have been more comfortable at work then stuck in a never ending line to no where, to pay for a mailed badge or some more staff/better equipment. You think after doing the Con for so many years they would have it down and not screw things up, and know what works and doesn't works. All I know is that everyone I know and talked to said that if the lines continue to be just as bad this year and onward then we will just stop going to Fanime all together. And I think people flying in or who travel long distances will do the same. They better do something before they start to loose attendees. I know Japan Expo at least got the registration and line issues squared away their first year, as for the events, location, and things to see/do their is need for much improvement.

I really hope they actually do this.  Though registration is back at the CC and things should be better, manpower is definitely needed as well.  If they are serious about improving the registration lines (like they keep claiming while being very tight-lipped about any actual solutions), then hopefully we'll see that with bringing these people on board.  It would help ease the congestion, and help to ensure people don't get grumpy before things even start.

The final thing which confirmed my suspicions about why the Steam Punk Con? As a person who pays for a Anime Con I want to attend a Anime Con. Not this or that whatever scene/theme, or whatever else they try to force in to get people through the door. So why the change and addition of Clockwork Alchemy a Steam Punk Con?

I'll tell you some of the people involved where also upset but couldn't do anything about it. You see who ever is the big shot in charge at the very top for Fanime wanted to put on his resume that he ran 2 cons at the same time. And to hell if put a strain on the Con that has being going on for more than a decade and is the primary bread winner that attracts all the attendees. So nothing more than the sole benefit for one individual vs the attendees in general.

It was hilarious that they had a off site registration for the Clockwork Alchemy which was also valid for Fanime, where the line was 15-20 minutes but at the Fairmont it was a average of 3-6 stinking hours. Oh it was a short line offsite by the airport because almost no one knew about it, so some got lucky while the majority of people where screwed.

If that's true about the main organizer simply wanting two cons on his resume, that's a bit dumb.  While I can understand wanting more on there, doesn't running one con well for decades look a lot better than trying to run two, and both stumbling in the process?  I'm a bit skeptical about if this is true, but if it is, it just seems like a bad reason to bring another con into the mix.

And yeah, I heard about the speediness of the Clockwork line during the weekend.  It really irritated me to say the least, especially after enduring the Fanime line for hours.  I guess if you were going to Clockwork or thought outside the box you were fortunate enough to get your registration early, but otherwise you were SOL.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: kookiekween99 on March 06, 2014, 10:19:36 PM
If that's true about the main organizer simply wanting two cons on his resume, that's a bit dumb.  While I can understand wanting more on there, doesn't running one con well for decades look a lot better than trying to run two, and both stumbling in the process?  I'm a bit skeptical about if this is true, but if it is, it just seems like a bad reason to bring another con into the mix.

Fanime's chair team changes every three years to try and keep things fresh. CA was the current chair's brainchild. This is his third year though, so next year Fanime will be under new management.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Kahluah on March 07, 2014, 12:03:49 AM
Fanime's chair team changes every three years to try and keep things fresh. CA was the current chair's brainchild. This is his third year though, so next year Fanime will be under new management.

we can only hope next years management will do a far better one than this one has been doing. While clockwork does sound like a nice idea I always wondered why they kept helping out with it if they were unable to essentially run two cons at once. If it really is true that the one guy just wanted a better looking resume that really sucks because even if the new management is as displeased with this ordeal as we are they may be unable to due much since many people attend both cons and such.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: megamanjoe415 on March 08, 2014, 03:47:00 PM
Hello and good day,

After reading all of the comments and posts, all these suggestions and issues with both Fanime and CA I agree with you all. CA should have a seperate date/days coinciding with Fanime and for some people anime is more important than steampunk, and vise-versa. This year there is a choice to pickup your badges.  Registration is not at the Fairmont, and communication between staff and con goers are at most important.

I have been going to Fanime since 2006. I am at most disappointed on how the website is going this year. This has been the latest I have ever seen. In 08/09 the website would be up in a few months, and as early as august.

I have tried to talk to people in staff and they don't know whats going on. CA has their website up and running: this is unfair to the Fanime con goers. Here is my question: why should we be forced to buy a badge for both cons, when people only want to go to one of them? I have friends who cosplay all the time at Fanime, some who have their own AA or even photo shoot. Fanime will always be known for being the largest Anime Con in the Northern California/Silicon Valley region, so why try something different that is currently hurting the con?

If someone who agrees to my message as a supporter to Fanime, you may quote me, message me, or hate/like me. But I will not stand to see Fanime go down all of these years.

Anime_Files
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: CatToy on March 09, 2014, 01:42:26 AM
Fanime's website has 5 buttons now! That's a 250% increase! :D
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: MPLe on March 09, 2014, 12:56:09 PM
Locking this post so I can reply. I'll unlock it after I'm done replying.

[Edit: Unlocking now. For real this time.]

Going to make comments on random things here and there on dfens post. I'm hoping that these will squish some of the rumors going around and each and every one of you is free to always send me a PM.

- dfens post is largely incorrect. FanimeCon and Clockwork Alchemy each have their own budgeting and Clockwork Alchemy doesn't "take" any money from FanimeCon's budget. This wouldn't be a smart move as an ever growing convention such as FanimeCon usually needs more money, not less.
- The guests being "lame" is a separate issue that has been covered many times. There is simply no way of getting the "perfect" guests for each of our attendees, which is why we constantly make posts and reach out to attendees to see what type of guests they would like. Our GR team then uses that + market trends to get guests that we hope would be amazing enough for you guys to enjoy them. Keep in mind that although it happens, it's less common for people to comment when a guest is good than bad.
- No one on staff has ever denied that the registration issues were bad. I, myself, have commented many times that they were bad and that our registration staff has been spending this entire planning year on working on them. The current goal right now is to post a "what's new" on Registration so people can be familiar with the new space that it's moving into (as well as how the line flow will work).
- The comment about the FanimeCon convention chair wanting to put that "he ran 2 cons at the same time" is laughable as Clockwork Alchemy has their own set of convention staffers (including chair) and most of us don't work in industries where our convention experience is relevant enough to put on our resumes (although in all fairness, it's always a bit of a cool thing to bring up ;)).
- FanimeCon and Clockwork Alchemy do share the same registration backend. The Clockwork Alchemy registration was more of a soft test to see if it would work. If we had 25% of the people at the Fairmont over there and something massive happened, we would have been screwed. We know now what ended up happening at the Fairmont after the fact.

- The website launch is super late this year. I know it, the webteam knows, it, you know it, everyone else knows it. We're really close to launching with a *ton* of information. There's no real excuse for ever being late and it being under my division, I take blame.

I have tried to talk to people in staff and they don't know whats going on.
You know that you can talk to me right? I've said this to you many times. We try to keep our staff from posting unconfirmed information since it often ends up being misquoted incorrectly (or as a "my friend works as a staffer and said this" post, which also happens way too often).
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Admiral Donuts on March 09, 2014, 04:30:40 PM
I'm glad someone came in to address these concerns in an official capacity.

I think that most of the beef people have with FanimeCon staff comes from a lack of transparency and information more than anything. I remember post-2013 FanimeCon people asking couldn't even get attendance numbers when they asked staff.

For example; badge pick-up at Clockwork vs. at FanimeCon. It was presented on the website in such a way that you could pick up a FanimeCon badge (as in, one with FanimeCon artwork) at Clockwork, you just had to select the right boxes. However, when the question came up in the forums, it turns out this wasn't the case. That's the kind of info that should be on the reg page itself. Let's not go into the whole "This year you require a badge for hotel registration" debacle that ensued.

Quote
our registration staff has been spending this entire planning year on working on them
What have they been working on? We were told the same thing last year and the only change I saw was pre-reg badges now have stickers on them.

Quote
We're really close to launching with a *ton* of information. There's no real excuse for ever being late and it being under my division, I take blame.
What's "close?" A week? A month? The registration FAQ went up on Feburary 3rd and says "FanimeCon’s Pre-Registration from the last day of FanimeCon 2013 accounts will be loaded into the server soon."

Nobody's expecting miracles or a behind-the-scenes tour of what it takes to run FanimeCon, all I think people want is a little acknowledgement and some less vague answers.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on March 09, 2014, 06:36:48 PM
Locking this post so I can reply. I'll unlock it after I'm done replying.

[Edit: Unlocking now. For real this time.]

Going to make comments on random things here and there on dfens post. I'm hoping that these will squish some of the rumors going around and each and every one of you is free to always send me a PM.

- dfens post is largely incorrect. FanimeCon and Clockwork Alchemy each have their own budgeting and Clockwork Alchemy doesn't "take" any money from FanimeCon's budget. This wouldn't be a smart move as an ever growing convention such as FanimeCon usually needs more money, not less.
- The guests being "lame" is a separate issue that has been covered many times. There is simply no way of getting the "perfect" guests for each of our attendees, which is why we constantly make posts and reach out to attendees to see what type of guests they would like. Our GR team then uses that + market trends to get guests that we hope would be amazing enough for you guys to enjoy them. Keep in mind that although it happens, it's less common for people to comment when a guest is good than bad.
- No one on staff has ever denied that the registration issues were bad. I, myself, have commented many times that they were bad and that our registration staff has been spending this entire planning year on working on them. The current goal right now is to post a "what's new" on Registration so people can be familiar with the new space that it's moving into (as well as how the line flow will work).
- The comment about the FanimeCon convention chair wanting to put that "he ran 2 cons at the same time" is laughable as Clockwork Alchemy has their own set of convention staffers (including chair) and most of us don't work in industries where our convention experience is relevant enough to put on our resumes (although in all fairness, it's always a bit of a cool thing to bring up ;)).
- FanimeCon and Clockwork Alchemy do share the same registration backend. The Clockwork Alchemy registration was more of a soft test to see if it would work. If we had 25% of the people at the Fairmont over there and something massive happened, we would have been screwed. We know now what ended up happening at the Fairmont after the fact.

- The website launch is super late this year. I know it, the webteam knows, it, you know it, everyone else knows it. We're really close to launching with a *ton* of information. There's no real excuse for ever being late and it being under my division, I take blame.



Thank you for coming to address these concerns directly and regaining Fanime some face!

To address the issue with "lame" guests, I was most excited in the last three years for Flow, Yuya Matsushita, and 7!!Oops. However, before then, Fanime had even more fantastic guests for all people. Still, while I understand it's not possible to please everyone, I think Fanime needs to look to Sakuracon and AX for examples. Sakura-con has just confirmed a large number of guests from the Attack on Titan anime. I don't think they necessarily waited for people to tell them this, it was just common sense. Knowing the current trends is part of booking guests. AX does the same thing. They've had guests from Crypton Media (Hatsune Miku) and other popular industries/anime/bands because they know these guests would please the fans, without having to ask the fans. I know this sounds crazy, but it works!

About the website not being up-there really does just in general need to be more communication about these sorts of things. It really is unacceptable to keep fans who are putting down so much money in the dark, and causes unnecessary anxiety. The fact that Fanime has not communicated to the fans at all about it until just now is extremely unprofessional, and such a thing is largely damaging Fanime's credibility. A convention as large and seasoned as Fanime should know better.

Now this is just my own curiosity, and I know it's not the norm for a con to release such information, but I really am curious about how Clockwork receives their money to operate then? If they're not taking money from Fanime registration, how can they afford to run their convention? Even with table fee's accounted for, it still seems a bit unnerving.

Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Kraken on March 09, 2014, 11:09:56 PM
[Edit by MPLe: I am confirming that this is who he says he is. I won't be able to get to responses until tomorrow evening.]

Hi I am the current Chair of Clockwork Alchemy.

MPLe has helped to clear many of misconceptions and rumors regarding FanimeCon and Clockwork Alchemy.  I will attempt to do the same for the question asked directly about Clockwork Alchemy. 

Quote
I really am curious about how Clockwork receives their money to operate then? If they're not taking money from FanimeCon registration, how can they afford to run their convention? Even with table fee's accounted for, it still seems a bit unnerving.

Our small budget is not coming from your registration for FanimeCon.  The bay area has a relatively large Steampunk community and it is from that community that we staff our convention and get the vast majority of the fans that register specifically for Clockwork Alchemy.   Clockwork Alchemy gets its funds from these registrations, from table fees as you mentioned, and even from our own pockets as we endeavor to put on the best event we can.  Relative to FanimeCon we have a much smaller attendance and as such we also have a much much smaller budget. 

FanimeCon has given us infrastructure to use but it was existing things like space on a server, access to a registration system and yes advice when we ask.  Something we are infinitely grateful for.  It was our responsibility to staff it and use these resources.  In return we are happy that we can offer, for those who want it, an opportunity to come and enjoy the events at Clockwork Alchemy. 

I hope that we add something for FanimeCon attendees as having the opportunity to share what we love has been an amazing experience.  I spent 10 years on FanimeCon staff before Clockwork Alchemy and was happy to introduced the Steampunk community to FanimeCon several years ago when I learned that Steampunk was the theme. Something we did then without using any of FanimeCons budget as well, even with the live performance.  ;)

I hope that I have helped clear up any misconceptions.   
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: kookiekween99 on March 10, 2014, 08:08:04 PM
[Edit by MPLe: I am confirming that this is who he says he is. I won't be able to get to responses until tomorrow evening.]

Hi I am the current Chair of Clockwork Alchemy.

MPLe has helped to clear many of misconceptions and rumors regarding FanimeCon and Clockwork Alchemy.  I will attempt to do the same for the question asked directly about Clockwork Alchemy. 

Quote
I really am curious about how Clockwork receives their money to operate then? If they're not taking money from FanimeCon registration, how can they afford to run their convention? Even with table fee's accounted for, it still seems a bit unnerving.

Our small budget is not coming from your registration for FanimeCon.  The bay area has a relatively large Steampunk community and it is from that community that we staff our convention and get the vast majority of the fans that register specifically for Clockwork Alchemy.   Clockwork Alchemy gets its funds from these registrations, from table fees as you mentioned, and even from our own pockets as we endeavor to put on the best event we can.  Relative to FanimeCon we have a much smaller attendance and as such we also have a much much smaller budget. 

FanimeCon has given us infrastructure to use but it was existing things like space on a server, access to a registration system and yes advice when we ask.  Something we are infinitely grateful for.  It was our responsibility to staff it and use these resources.  In return we are happy that we can offer, for those who want it, an opportunity to come and enjoy the events at Clockwork Alchemy. 

I hope that we add something for FanimeCon attendees as having the opportunity to share what we love has been an amazing experience.  I spent 10 years on FanimeCon staff before Clockwork Alchemy and was happy to introduced the Steampunk community to FanimeCon several years ago when I learned that Steampunk was the theme. Something we did then without using any of FanimeCons budget as well, even with the live performance.  ;)

I hope that I have helped clear up any misconceptions.   


So in other words, selecting which con you're attending in online registration determines which con gets the money from us? That actually makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Also, I'm glad that we got a response from high-level staff from both cons.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: InsaneChan on March 10, 2014, 08:58:38 PM

So in other words, selecting which con you're attending in online registration determines which con gets the money from us? That actually makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Also, I'm glad that we got a response from high-level staff from both cons.

Has it always been that way though? I don't remember 'choosing a con' being there until this year o_0
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Kraken on March 10, 2014, 10:58:34 PM
Quote
Has it always been that way though? I don't remember 'choosing a con' being there until this year o_0

Yes it has been that way all three years.  In the previous two years if you followed the link from the FanimeCon site it defaulted for FanimeCon so maybe that is why you did not see it. 
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Admiral Donuts on March 11, 2014, 06:09:01 AM
This is the first year they have it set up this way.

Edit: vvv Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: SquishyK on March 11, 2014, 09:32:40 AM
This is the first year they have it set up this way.
No, I know the option was definitely there last year. I even sent an email to CRM registration about it because I wanted to know if that would effect where I could pick up my badge.

This is however the first year that you could pick your convention (main reason for registering) AND intended pick up location.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: tbombaci on March 12, 2014, 12:52:49 PM
Wow. Sad to see what has become of FanimeCon. I am one of the founding members from loong ago at Laney College, Foothill, Wyndam then Finally Doubletree. (get off my lawn, lol) I left the organization right before it moved to the SJ Convention center.

IMHO, a steampunk con along side the once great FanimeCon is ridiculous.

We left and started FanimeCon because we didn't like the way Anime America was managed. Has it become a full circle?

Tom
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Admiral Donuts on March 12, 2014, 02:00:29 PM
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: megamanjoe415 on March 12, 2014, 07:43:56 PM
Hello and good day,

Let me remind you guys about last years registration horror.

If you bought your badge at the FanimeCon wrbsite, you would get the badge at the FanimeCon location. This was the same for the Clockwork Alchemy website, if you bought a CA badge, you have to pick it up at the CA location. There was not a choice selection of where to pickup your badges, like they did for this year. Clockwork Alchemy has joined FanimeCon since 2012 and there was no choice of where to pickup the badges as the websites were not linked together with the registration choices.

Hope this clears it up for everybody,
Anime_Files
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Dracil on March 13, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
So it was mentioned that Clockwork Alchemy gets its money from the fans who registered for Clockwork Alchemy. In light of the above post, I wonder how many people picked Clockwork Alchemy last year just to avoid the Fanime lines but were otherwise primarily FanimeCon attendees?
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: thepsynergist on March 13, 2014, 01:51:55 PM
So it was mentioned that Clockwork Alchemy gets its money from the fans who registered for Clockwork Alchemy. In light of the above post, I wonder how many people picked Clockwork Alchemy last year just to avoid the Fanime lines but were otherwise primarily FanimeCon attendees?
I would have done that if I knew it were an option.  I even stayed at the Doubletree last year...
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Anix on March 13, 2014, 03:42:03 PM
Actually towards the end of the con they were even letting Fanime people pick up their badges at Clockwork which leads me to believe the systems were linked even last year. Maybe Ewu can shed some light on this?
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: Dracil on March 13, 2014, 09:09:26 PM
Yeah, while my question was pre-reg before, I also wonder what happened to the people who went over to Doubletree to register instead of waiting in the 6 hour at-con registration at Fanime. Did that money go to Clockwork Alchemy instead of Fanime?
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: ewu on March 14, 2014, 03:11:17 PM
Actually towards the end of the con they were even letting Fanime people pick up their badges at Clockwork which leads me to believe the systems were linked even last year. Maybe Ewu can shed some light on this?

The systems were linked, but we did not want to put too much load on the Clockwork side because we needed to make sure it was stable, did not break down after LOTS of people over there, and we were able to manage the lines in the Doubletree.

Yeah, while my question was pre-reg before, I also wonder what happened to the people who went over to Doubletree to register instead of waiting in the 6 hour at-con registration at Fanime. Did that money go to Clockwork Alchemy instead of Fanime?

We have many metrics to evaluate our events. We also look at the actual numbers of people attending the events and other indications.
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: megamanjoe415 on March 14, 2014, 05:09:00 PM
Well, last year, the main problem was they didn't tell people till the last minute that you can pick up badges at the double tree,  which led to the massive lines which led to 2 medical calls.

I was lucky to be in line as I waited on thursday for prereg pickup since 11am. I was at least the first 100 in line, then moved to a smaller room, then back downstairs near the lobby, then up to the grand ballroom. Badge pickup throughout the previous years has been 4pm, and just the 3hr difference for a 7pm pickup last year was ridiculous as I didnt pickup the badges till almost 10pm... a line within a line to another line, thats just crazy in itself. I feel bad for the people in line for more than I did. I still have pictures of the line from when it went down the ally way to around the corner...
Title: Re: Clockwork Alchemy: Is this where my Fanime money is going?
Post by: kookiekween99 on March 14, 2014, 07:13:00 PM
If I recall correctly, the 7pm thing had to do with a scheduling conflict with the Fairmont... HOPEFULLY moving back to the CC will help, as well as whatever mysterious new methods that have yet to be revealed. Seriously crossing my fingers about this.