Messages

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one. "Koucha no Waltz," one of Maria's image songs from Hayate the Combat Butler. I'd assume the proper dance is the waltz, going from the name (but I know nothing about dances). You can listen to it on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeS6gvlnZEw and I have an MP3 that I can send if needed.

Tis' actually a Viennese Waltz

If a location could be secured and a break for dinner be given, I would be more than happy to run evening classes.

I would like some of those too. I also wish for photographers to explicitly state whether or not reposting of their photos (mainly ones featuring ourselves or friends) on our own private galleries would be acceptable (Credit will be given of course).

Additionally, the instructor has his own schedule online <http://www.swdance.com/current.htm> which shows (for example) that on June 8th the ballroom style will be Rumba, and the 22nd will be East Coast Swing.  (The websites disagree over whether the price is $12 or $15, I'll edit this post when I find out, but the guy at the desk told me $12...)

I'm told that the dress code is "comfortable shoes" but otherwise no special apparel is required ("jeans would be fine"). 

At the time this post was written, the guy at the front desk said that normally they get 20-30 people to the Friday events, but the last few were larger at ~30.  (I warned him they may get an influx due to being mentioned at a convention in the area this past weekend.    ;D

-Neil
Two-Left-Feet member #46168, Region 6.

Those dates you have listed are actually for May, not June. The Rumba party, Elizabeth and I were TAs for and has long past. The East Coast Swing lessons occurred during Day One of Fanime. I'll let you guys know what the next month's social dance parties will be as soon as I find out, but they should be held on the 12th and 26th. The lessons are only $10 for sure (never cost us any more than that). I dunno why they may be listed otherwise elsewhere. o.O

Also, I mentioned specifically to the salsa class that they may be interested in Hot Salsa Fridays hosted on the 1st and 3rd Fridays of every month. They're tons of fun and include a lesson, party, fun contest with small prizes, snacks, and more.

Dance Spectrum is definitely a great place to go. Jonathan Roberts and Anna Trebunskaya from Dancing with the Stars are both teachers there. Other places in the Bay Area that I'd personally like to recommend are Premier Ballroom in Fremont (especially for Waltz/Tango/Quickstep/Foxtrot/Viennese Waltz), Cheryl Burke Starlite Dance in Mountain View (owned by Cheryl Burke of Dancing with the Stars), and Dance Boulevard (formerly San Jose DanceSport) in South San Jose. If anyone ever wants to know more about ballroom dance, feel more than free to ask. I'm quite pleased that an interest in ballroom dance seems to have been sparked in quite a number of people. :D

Hopefully this may lead to a great amount of confident dancers at next year's event. :D

Foxtrot Mixer.... Straight lines? WTF? I watched Dan do it, but I was still confused and I apologized to my partners afterward. And evidently other people were confused, since they piled on the floor and did their own thing. I'm used to Foxtrot mixers counterclockwise... Perhaps diagonal next year? Compromise? AND MORE MIXERS!

I think I remember you now. I actually was also more in favor of one lap around the floor in line of dance for the mixers rather than the straight line across as it would have allowed for more time on the floor and more fun with patterns, though I'm guessing one of the concerns was having the flow of dancers move fast enough. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but roughly only one third of the people who showed up to the ball actually came to the lessons and who knows how many of them attended Foxtrot. As many people noticed, there was a massive issue of people in the mixer not knowing the dance, so that is one reason I can find for the way the mixers were done.

Something Elizabeth and I are going to be during this next year will be creating dance resources that will be open to the general public. We can have them linked to and people who express interest in the ball during their planning stages can have access to etiquette, some instructional videos, a suggestion list for songs they can practice to, proper tempos, and more.

Glad someone's interested.

The Dance Spectrum
1707 S. Bascom Ave
Campbell, CA

We are not affiliated with the studio. We simply recommend the parties that happen on the 2nd and 4th Fridays due to many reasons.

-The instructor is very nice and will gladly answer questions during the party. The entire family will love him.
-It's only $10 for the lesson (8:00 PM - 9:00 PM) and party (9:00 PM - 12:00 AM). Pretty good deal.
-They're beginner classes, so no prior experience is needed.
-They don't get too crowded, so you'll be able the attention you need.

I thought these conditions might appeal to most. The lessons provide a good learning atmosphere and some of the other instructors and I drop by half of the time. Let me know if anyone wants to know about other kinds of lessons and perhaps this will result in us having more able assistants for next year! :]

[Ball]

the conga line was fun and people have only themselves to blame if they don't know how to get out of the way.

The rest of the feedback was fine, but once again, I must disagree here.

Safety is a huge concern and with the event being catered as a ballroom dance function (Black and White Ball... Ballroom Dance....), those are the set of rules and etiquette to be adhered to. There NEEDS to be flow and people SHOULD be mindful of the potential hazard they can be to people around them. Also, people have the right to have fun, but having your foot stepped on by high heels REALLY hurts. Fun? I think not. Painful? Oh yes, I would know. Even in a crowd of experienced ballroom dancers, accidents happen.

So unless you consider crashing into fellow congoers, having your dance path blocked by a wall of idling dancers paying no consideration to those around them, having your feet stepped on, having your face hit by somebody's flailing arms, or having people run into your knees (this DOES happen and it is a VERY serious problem; injured knees due to horsing around = Goodbye ball) as your idea of fun, I would put more thought into adhering to the proper etiquette. While we want the event to be enjoyable, your safety is also in our interest. If people get injured because of other people obstructing the path of other people's dances while goofing around, there is absolutely no excuse.

People who attended the lessons really worked hard on what they learned (and I mean that with utter sincerity. I greatly appreciated a lot of the enthusiasm and effort they put) and they deserve to be allowed to attend an event where they can be respected by their fellows instead of hindered by people that chose not to take time to learn things properly and diligently.

-Dan

P.S. Shoes were mentioned at the start of every single lesson. EVERY single lesson. I made sure of it. We even have video evidence. I don't know what was done outside of our lessons (which was all we were really responsible alongside being present at the ball), but you definitely should have heard it PLENTY of times in class.

I'd love to offer intermediate patterns. There were a good number of students that I just LOVED teaching due to their enthusiasm and it's always good to award enthusiasm. The time restraints make it a bit difficult, but perhaps there can be something that can be done.

-Dan

I disagree on opting for less dances. EC Swing, Rumba, Cha-cha, Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, make up the core beginner dancers and are considered the staple must-haves. Salsa also gets thrown in there because it is immensely popular (especially in California), easy, and accessible.

Personally, I'd like to throw out Nightclub Two-Step in favor of Disco Hustle. The music seems to appeal to people more and it's very accessible to beginning dancers. The Disco Hustle beginner class seemed VERY well received on Saturday compared to the other open floor classes. It just seems so much more fun than two-step, which I consider to be a bit of a lazier dance.

Also, while the intro classes sound nice in theory, I didn't think they helped that much. People would have to learn the basic movements in the actual class anyway, so they might as well do so in a class set to give them enough to be able to perform the dance legitimately in a social environment as well as be able to focus on solely that dance style. If a taste is what we want to give people, just a visual demonstration would suffice. I could even prepare videos that could be linked to from the convention's website if people can't make the scheduled demos.

If we cut those, we gain two more hours, which could be used for the desired new dance (Argentine Tango seems to be winning so far).

I understand the frustrations of having too many people on the dance floor that are just lingering or not following the proper line of dance as well as not knowing how to dance and parodying certain moves.

Well, for them to have fun with what they have is one thing, but being a hazard to others is another. Goofing around (I once again bring up the hollywood tango, which I was hit by a few times) can be detrimental to the efforts of other congoers who are trying to have fun. The line of dance's main purpose is ensuring a proper flow. Going against the flow can lead to nasty accidents that we certainly do not want to be liable for. As for idling, there's no reason it needs to be done on the dance floor.

i've seen complaints on music selection; not only because people didn't like the music but because more experienced dancers felt that the music selection didn't qualify for the dance it was for. maybe a suggestion for this is to have a few experienced dancers on staff for whoever is in charge of music choice for the ball?

For music, we will indeed be paying more mind to the playlist for next year, so hopefully things will be better in that regard at the next ball.

-Dan

As for the ball, the dance floor felt pretty crowded and I didn't like how people ran into you and then gave you dirty looks. Some bumping around is bound to happen, but no need to give attitude.

Indeed. Some people obliged when I asked them to move off the floor instead of idling around, but a lot of people were very rude when I told them that they were being a hazard (once again, there is little to find amusing about charging across the floor in a hollywood tango hold). People don't care to take responsibility for their thoughtless actions until after someone gets hurt and I do not want to see that happen.

let me tell you about this incredible invention called a watch.

Poor and self-supporting college students have more things to pay for (like tuition or their car insurance) before paying for a watch. (I'm sorry, but that comment came off as condescending to me.... >.>)

I still say that Viennese Waltz is a hazard if a line of dance (LOD) is not established.  This is kind of true for waltz, tango, and foxtrot were the basic steps require travel.  Swing, cha cha, salsa, and rumba can be danced in a more packed nightclub setting.  The trick will be to institute the traditional counterclockwise LOD. Not an easy task with the large and overly packed dance floor which we have on our hands. Maybe we should have announcements to force a LOD whenever a song which requires one starts.  We could have the instructor planted around the room to "remind" people to start moving in a counter clockwise direction.

Line of Dance was taught, but as mentioned, only one third of the attendees actually attended the ball (an estimate based on the total counts we got). Tango is the big one. Only one class meaning very few people had learned it. There was FAR more goofing off than legitimate tango during the tango songs, and as it was mentioned earlier, not only is it a hazard (especially to people following LOD), it can also be seen as a mockery.

If it does fall under Waltz, then sure go ahead and play it. It was just kinda weird for me, lol.

Oh, it most definitely is. You may want to compare the different versions though.

Kermit the Frog (the original): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw6rNr1X-gY&feature=related (not official, but fairly close. The only official version I could find has been muted :/)
Sarah Maclachlan's cover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4GBnpS83As

- Kermit the frog?

Ahahahahhaha!

Well, Rainbow Connection is actually a great song for waltz (I've actually used it myself for a performance earlier this year). It's certainly danceable, though I'll agree it's a bit out of place and the Sarah Mclachlan version is a lot nicer. (I know Kermit did the original, but the Sarah Mclachlan version has better instrumentals and it's also easier to dance to)

umm also would it be possible to hold dance classes on day zero? for those of us who really are enthuisastic about it.

I'd be more than happy, though they'd have to be in the evening due to...

1. The floor will probably be set up during the day
2. I tend to have my last final exam on the day before the convention.

Elizabeth and I actually were there on Thursday evening and we actually did give out some instruction. (a few people were attempting waltz, but didn't quite have the footwork)

Glad people like Argentine Tango. I'll come up with a good way to teach it.

Also, if people want Disco Hustle to be taught during the regular classes, speak up. It seemed to be well received on Saturday.

It does depend on the song.  It'd have to be a hybrid, where the tempo's just slow enough for the slowest dance, but fast enough that the other dances could still be danced.

That said, in my experience, for raw beginners, they usually prefer slower music so they can think about what they're doing.  They eat that extra time not by stretching their movement, but by half-pausing with each step to think about where the next one is.  I figured more people at the ball would be a raw beginner than someone who has about 1-6 months experience (at which point, the preference in tempo does change).

And, well, I compete rhythm, and I can tell you, I sure as heck prefer a slower tempo, even though that isn't what I get.  :)  [I want more time to milk my cuban motion! :P]

Ah, I know who you are. I suppose that if that's what we're wanting to get out of beginners, I should mention it during lessons (i.e. "It is okay to stay still during a song"). With waltz and foxtrot, I did indeed address that it's okay to stop during the song and just contemplate the next pattern (taught them to sway in place during this. I'm pleased to find that a lot of people who attended the lesson got this), but with Rumba, when people were dancing the slower songs, they'd keep the tempo they were used to in the lessons (I used "Big Girls Don't Cry", 151 bpm, so fairly medium speed) rather than keeping time. Hopefully, taking a minute to talk about being okay with stillness may help a bit. I should devise another way to eat time. Yes, for dancers, cuban motion is definitely the way to go, but with the hour constraint, I definitely cannot train proper cuban motion. Maybe I can push for some kind of a Latin workshop next year. I'd be more than happy to teach that.

Oh yeah, one thing. For those who attended the Tango lesson, you should have gotten a taste of an Argentine Tango demo (a bit trickier to teach, a lot more relaxed to learn due to no line of dance, a hug instead of a dance frame, and room for improvisation). Make it very clear if you'd like to learn that next year! Also, for those who came to the final swing class, Elizabeth and I also did demos for West Coast Swing (nightclub style version of swing. Very linear, relaxed, and more appropriate for hiphop and R&B. Adaptable to many tempos) as well as Lindy Hop (hectic eight count swing. Very quick and energetic. If this is wanted, it would need to be an intermediate class so people can get their foundation in EC Swing first).

So make sure to include in your feedback whether or not you'd like Argentine Tango, WC Swing, or Lindy Hop! (for people who attended the classes and saw the demos or know for sure what the dances are)

hotel policy usually states that there is no outside food allowed so i guess the only way to change the prices on the food is for fanime to pay partially for some of it. everything else i pretty much agree with you

Hmmm, I didn't consider that. The pricing still upsets me.

For me, the biggest worries came with how many people are, and how the amount of people to size of room ratio made it sometimes about as physically likely to be able to dance as it is likely for you to phase through a wall.

The music was also, if not "bad", definitely not appropriate to the theme of a formal dance.

Well, for the first part, I most definitely agree. I addressed it during the rules portion of the lessons, though as I mentioned earlier, rules needed to have been more strictly enforced. People should exercise proper judgment over whether it's safe to take a spot on the dance floor or if it is too crowded, thus meaning that they should wait until the floor clears up.

As for the second, the problem I had with the music, as I had mentioned earlier, was the type of dances they were labeled for. Timing determines the style. As for the theme, I have no problem. No offense, but people need to throw out the idea of what they see as a formal dance. My partner (Elizabeth, one of the other instructors) and I are serious ballroom competitors, so we are well familiar with what's played at both social ballroom parties and competitive ballroom competitions, and many people will be surprised to find more modernized music as opposed to classical. A ball can still be formal even with new-age music.

Of course, if we end up with straight up techno/trance music you would find at a rave, that's a whole different story.

I'm surprised the Fairmont was so sloppy about how they put it together.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm a bit curious why the ball wasn't held in the convention center?  Meeting Rooms J1-J3 seemed bigger than the Regency Ballroom, and the floor there was good for a standard portable floor.  (Much smoother, and better assembled.)

Agreed. While I wasn't pleased with the floor itself when I first saw it in the convention center, when I saw the floor in the Fairmont, I immediately determined that I would have preferred the floor that the lessons were held on over the actual floor. Like I said, hopefully we get a legitimate ballroom floor next year that actually GIVES into impact.

By the by -- I didn't mind that some songs weren't painfully precise with their tempos -- being able to dance a bolero to a rumba is fine, since people who are new have it a little easier when practicing the rumba, and more advanced dancers can make the tempo work for whatever they choose to do just fine.

Partially agreeing. Slower does make for good practice, but when it gets to the point where a rumba is actually a Bolero (keep in mind that we taught American Rumba, not International Rumba. American Rumba is already fairly faster compared to International), dancing on-time becomes painfully difficult. Believe me, I intentionally practice my International Rumba at the Bolero speed and I would not want to have a complete beginner go through that. Same deal with the cha-cha. If it becomes too fast or too slow, attempting cha-cha makes no sense. People noticed I was doing salsa to faster songs even if they were labeled as cha-cha because there was no way I would be willing to force a beginner to move at a pace even I myself am not comfortable with. As for the sambas, I sat out completely as they were never taught and doing cha-cha so slowly would be uncomfortable to a beginner. (Note: for those who aren't aware, beginners have a tendency to want to keep moving as being comfortable with stillness during a dance is something that MUST be developed)

Clock-on Sunday when I was at the computer up on the stage I did not know if there was a set procedure of when we had to tell the instructors how much time they had left.  Generally I would start off at time at 15 minutes left, not always by shouting but by using hand signals until you noticed.  I know that might not have been enough.

Those indeed helped, but having a clock would have kept me on pace from the start and it would have helped the students as well as they'd be aware of how much time they were spending on a move, thus they would be able to gauge their own progress and ask for help if they feel they may fall behind (remember that I cannot move a class backwards even if one or two people really don't get a move. That is one of the downsides of group classes and I do feel regret if I'm not able to figure out how to help out lost individuals within a time constraint).

2. The lack of people who knew how to dance and wanted to learn how to dance. I know it's hard to restrict the ball to people who actually know how to dance, but it's ridiculous when people show up with no idea how and resort to parodies of what they see on TV. It's annoying when you get paired up with people who don't even know how to dance for the dance mixers! If you can't do foxtrot, then why the heck are you in the foxtrot mixer? I didn't wait in line to be walked across the dance floor! I second the notion of having another dance floors for people who just want to fool around.

I'm glad someone else is speaking up about this as well. There's a problem when only about a third of the people attending the ball actually attended the classes beforehand and as I mentioned earlier, it seemed to be frustrating to those who worked hard during the classes. I'd also like to reiterate the point on how many people failed to follow the set etiquette: idling on the floor, goofing around and becoming potential hazards, being dishonest.

This is just an idea that some other staff/volunteers and I thought of: perhaps we could "encourage" people to attend lessons before attending the ball by creating admission tickets that con-goers can receive IF and ONLY IF they attend at least one of the lessons (where they shall receive these tickets at the end). Upon obtaining a ticket, they can use it to enter the ball (have it torn it half at the entrance, keeping the other half for re-entrance). This would help to ensure that con-goers have at least attended one of the lessons, thus knowing that particular dance and getting to hear about the rules and etiquette of the ball. We can't do much about dishonest people getting their hands on multiple admission tickets and handing them around, but I still find that this may likely be a progressive action.

I really want to list an age limit as an improvement, but that would mean no adorable little girl. I just think that most of people running around and acting being a nuisance were under 16. I guess it'd be hard to enforce and not fair to younger fans, but it might just sent the tone that the ball isn't some sort of anime prom with freaking allowed.

Personally, I disagree (but of course, I couldn't be on all parts of the floor at all times, so maybe I'm missing something). A lot of the people goofing around were around my age (19 for those who were curious). I did waltz with some of the younger people and they did just fine.

I don't judge dancing ability based on age. Here's a fun story: at the studio I train at most often, I'm very comfortable with being watched by other adult dancers or dancers my age, but I HATE dancing at the same time as little kids. Why? Because all the little kids I've seen can dance the crap out of myself and ALL of my friends and rivals in the dancing world. (two of these kids in particular have been featured on Dancing with the Stars during the junior competition of season 7.)

Moral of the story: Don't assume the kids are the ones that don't know what they're doing. Now, the idea that trained kids were at the ball last night is a bit of an exaggeration, but my recollections of dancing with younger students and doing just fine was surely not.

3. Viennese waltz is impossible in most venues without either very experienced dancers or rigid choreography.  The key is space. I believe that due to the size of the venue and the experience level of the average dancer, we should stay away from Viennese waltz, unless we do it as one of those waltz mixer.

The usual procedure for Viennese Waltz (and Quickstep as well. We didn't have that this year, and with good reason....) is to have the MC restrict the amount of people on the floor at once and simply play two Viennese Waltz songs in a row. After the first one is done, everyone is booted off the floor while the second group is welcomed on. Of course, that still wouldn't work with the massive turnout we had this year, but it's something to at least consider.

Overall, I'm happy with the feedback so far; all of it has been within reason and people have given proper details in a clear and concise manner. Eagerly awaiting to read more.

Dan here. I think it'd be appropriate for another staff member to break the ice. So this is my feedback and hopefully it can be used to improve things for next year. Overall, I felt things were a huge step up from last year, but there are still some things that need to be worked on.

1. The floor. I'm pretty sure not a single member of the B&W department is happy with the floor after last night and can all agree with me. The condition of the floor was hazardous, uncomfortable, and as I (and a few other people I knew) got to personally experience, a danger to their shoes. In addition to falling apart, a large portion of the floor was sticky. During our Circus performance, there were parts were our feet actually went from being stuck to suddenly slipping due to the various conditions of the floor. Also, it had no give (i.e. unable to properly absorb impact of dancing feet) so I'm willing to bet a lot of people had sore feet. Five hours of social dancing shouldn't make my feet more sore than an entire day at a collegiate competition (where I REALLY need to apply pressure to the floor).

2. Rules. There are a few more that should definitely be addressed for next year. One thing I found I particular was that opposed to last year, where the hazard was that no one stuck to the line of dance, with this year, most obstacles we came across were people either idling on the floor, just talking, or people just totally goofing off. The problem with this was that people had no mind for what was going on around them, thus getting in the way of people who were legitimately trying to dance. This was especially a problem with the tango. While a good number showed up to the tango lesson itself, they were a small percentage out of the total attendees out of the ball. I was walking around and observing, finding that the few people who attended were trying their best, but it was certainly difficult when you had the majority who did not attend, goofing around by charging across the floor attempting their "hollywood tangos", which I should point out, is actually a hazard (e.g. I was even hit in the face by a couple just running around while I was dancing with one of the VIPs).

Something else I'd like to bring up that is not really a huge problem, but I got complaints from some of the people (mainly people I recognized from the classes) about them running into the issue of having a partner that claims they know what they're doing and then practically saying "oops, I lied. Teach me please". I know we can't bar people who don't know the dances and didn't attend the classes from the ball, but it would certainly be courteous if people could answer honestly when asked. The better dances a person has during a night, the more memorable the night will be and I certainly saw some people having a hard time finding the right people to dance with. I'm thankful that some of the other instructors/assistants observed this as well and jumped in with people from the classes, so at least that helped.

One last thing regarding the rules and courtesy. This may or may not be more of a common sense thing, but I found myself puzzled when people decided to simultaneously stomp on the floor when the power was accidentally cut. The floor was already falling apart. I would have figured people would realize that they should be doing less to contribute to its state.

3. Music. Sorry to sound mean, but some of the music did not work. Tempo is pretty important. A lot of the rumbas that were played were International Rumba or Bolero. In other words, they were much too slow. Some of the tangos were actually tango vals (Argentine Tango done to Viennese Waltz music. Somewhat advanced). Some chachas ended up being too fast (mambo/salsa), or too slow (samba). Fortunately, the other instructors and assistants have agreed that we should take a bigger part in determining the music for next year, so that should hopefully be of help.

4. Food. Most social dance parties always have free snacks. Premier Ballroom guarantees their guests a bottle of water and cookies. Dancing uses up a LOT of energy and people REALLY need to stay fueled. Even if they did come and eat before the ball, they may end up becoming exhausted a few hours in (remember that some people do indeed have serious medical conditions that may require to have quick access to a source of nourishment). I felt that the mere snacks offered outside the door were rather overpriced and that may act as a deterrent. People may choose to attempt to endure their hunger rather than pay up. That can be a potential danger.

5. Commitment. This is more of something for within the department, but I don't remember a lot of people who said they wanted to help out ever showing up. When looking at the assigned schedules, I don't recall ever meeting half of the names on the list. Fortunately, there were some experienced dancers at the con that we were able to recruit at the last minute, so we eventually did get the assistance we needed, but I must say that a lot of us that did show up were quite disappointed in those that never came, especially when we had to take over their assigned shifts to pick up on their slack. Hopefully we can do something to get a more committed staff for next year (from what it seems, most of this year's instructors and assistants, including the ones that were recruited at the last second, are set on returning in 2010).

6. One small thing. I wish there was a clock in the room. A visible one. While most lessons went well with the use of our internal clocks (e.g. "It sure feels like an hour has passed") and occassionally asking at the stage, having a clock around would have really helped keep things on pace. This is especially for Sunday, where we had MUCH more people attend than the previous two days. One particular case I was rather unhappy with was the final rumba. Even though that class learned their moves remarkably faster and more thoroughly than the class from Saturday, we lost so much time that we couldn't get nearly as far, which displeased me as people really wanted to learn the final move and I couldn't teach it the way I wanted to.

That's all I can remember for the time being. Hopefully these are taken into consideration. As I said before though, it was definitely a step up from last year's. I'm glad to have been an instructor this year. I hope people enjoyed them more than the ones from the years before and I definitely will remember some particular faces who ended up becoming quite remarkable dancers despite never having touched ballroom dancing before. At the ball itself, the ones who attended the classes definitely stood out more than those who did not, and I was quite pleased in seeing that they felt good about knowing what they were doing. I am also glad the VIPs decided to come after all. I had a blast dancing with them, particularly Karen Dyer and Patricia Ja Lee. I'll definitely be back next year to helping out.

-Dan Tran