Messages

[
.......
]

So considering that all you do is pirate everything anyways... WHY THE HELL DOES YOUR OPINION EVEN MEAN ANYTHING?

This will be my final post.

I told you to PM me instead, but you still went on, so I assume you don't know what PM is. (That's OK, I'll just write here. The thread got ruined tho.)

How can you not realize how many obvious personal attacks you have made on me? Please, I did not call you names, and I did nothing to try to degrade your reputation. All I attacked were your arguments. Yet you insist on calling me an idiot, stupid, or whatever empty adjective to try to feel higher than you really are. (This time you checked how old I am. And you predictably did a personal attack on age. Age doesn't matter, only the argument.) In contrast, I don't do that. In fact, calling people stupid hurts me more than it hurts them. I'll ignore your remarks for now.

EDIT: I should explain how I got your age to be 30+.

I started watching anime in... 86, and it started with Robotech, Voltron, Speed Racer and other dubbed series.

Since you started watching in 1986, you would have to be at least 30 years old if you started watching when you were 7 years old.

Maybe my English isn't very good, but I interpreted the expression "bring anime to the US" as dubbing anime in English. So although your argument is correct, so was mine. Sorry for the confusion!

Well, a straw man argument is actually a logical fallacy. It's also a tactic used for debating unwitting opponents. So it's actually both. The two terms don't go head to head.

Change for the future? Based on what? Your preference? No one gives a damn about *your* preference, they care about the market as a whole.

Woooowww. My preference is my preference. Not everyone has to agree to it, but it's still my preference. This whole argument is based on MY PREFERENCE, not the MARKET'S PREFERENCE. Got it? Now if you don't like my preference (of course), then don't like them.

And the whole VA thing was about popular VA. I told you about how there are lower and higher salaries for different people for the same job.

umm...what? You're putting DVDs into the picture where we were talking about broadcasted anime. Those DON'T HAVE SUBS. The DVDs do. Those don't. Stop finding the exceptions to everything.

It was pretty painful to read through your post here. I wish people could stay cool while arguing; please count how many insults you have made.

And to the mods, I'll stop. Thanks for your opinion, but I don't really agree.



Joshua

[not quoting your post since it is too long]

Holy shoot...how much time did you take to write all that? O_o

I'll keep it short for your sake:

1. Not everyone makes lots of money at crunchyroll. People at the bottom get minimum wage, while the top get rich. It's how all companies work. Also, you once again assume that English dubs fare better than subs. While you may sound reasonable, a market for subtitled anime hasn't even been fully tried yet. Fit the market? (You're hitting so many logical fallacies here.) It's the market that I'm suggesting to change, not one of a lower hierarchy that should "fit the market".

2.

Your first post clearly states you did not want them to exist at all.

(Sorry, I had to quote this.) Please read my first post again, this time with no bias or assumptions. Looking at my post with your bias, I see that you interpret "don't want anime to be brought into the USA" as "I don't want them to exist". Think again. (This time it's a basic logical fallacy.) You're saying that "don't want" means "want not", i.e. "I don't want coffee" means "I want coffee to not exist".

3. There are things called quote mining and narrow-mindedness. When did I say that voice acting was the only thing that Japanese voice actors do? Anyone who has any clue to this area knows that voice actors are also often pop idols. Idols in Japan take class where they are taught to dance, sing, and/or voice act (depending on the class. They are also taught to be "cute".) Of course, not every idol can be popular, just like not every singer can take the top charts. And no, American VAs don't get paid "MORE" than Japanese ones. (Why are you bringing up a subject that can be tossed around like this anyways?) Oh, and you just pulled in the "domestic jobs" irrelevant topic to create yet another straw man fallacy.

4. And once again you assume that dubbed works would fare better than subtitled ones.

5. What's the point of looking at the present when I suggested change for the future? And when did I say that dubs were unimportant?

6. Okay, so I didn't use the word "dub" correctly. So? Did you get what I meant? (I think you did.)

7. Here's an idea. I'll give two suggestions. One: the USA subtitles anime. Or two: they make better dubs. Aren't you happy? It'll still be dubbed!

Once more, your post is nothing more than elitism. You once more state that you are better because you prefer subtitled over dub. You act as if people that don't agree with this are stupid.

Lastly, for personal attacks that express a categorization of the opposition, there is always an identical counterattack. For this instance, it is:

Once more, your post is nothing more than dub-ism. You once more state that you are better because you prefer dub over subtitled. You act as if people that don't agree with this are stupid.

Unfortunately, countering all of the assumptions in this one sentence also destroys your previous one. (I noticed that you didn't try to attack my accusations of your assumptions. I usually get a lot of stupid attempts at that.)


If you want to keep arguing, PM me instead. This is ruining the thread. Oh, and [the following is a personal attack] I'm honestly astonished at how you, a 30+ year-old, can be like this. Stop flaming others. I had no negativity in my first post, but you came in and almost trolled the thread.

Joshua

To be honest, I don't want anime to be brought to the USA. I hate English dubs and how America censors a lot of parts in anime.
I want to keep it in Japanese. If you want to market it in the USA, subtitle it in English. That'll be enough.
And for those that want to understand Japanese dub, learn Japanese. It's really that simple, in a sense. XD

Joshua

... I'm guessing you don't know anything about marketing nor the current state of this industry in the states. "That'll be enough"? Are you serious? Well first, as a business "enough" isn't what they're aiming for. As much business as possible... is what they're aiming for.

2ndly, you don't like dubs, that's fine. How does a company releasing dubs in any way affect/harm/hurt you? You're telling people that they should learn Japanese if they want to watch anime without having to depend on subtitles...

Essentially you're saying that a huge part of business and international sales should be completely terminated, because "you don't like dubs". Dubs happen everywhere, Japan gets dubbed versions of US dramas and stuff. A lot of those dubbed shows are done by VAs in anime. These VAs usually get more for these dubs than they do for work on anime. VA'ing isn't exactly the best paying job in the world, and without stuff like dubs, many of them probably couldn't afford to stay VAs.

To me, it sounds nothing more than you being an elitist. "I LIKE MY ANIME IN JP, AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T IS BELOW ME AND DOESN'T DESERVE TO WATCH IT!"

Dubs HELP the anime community. JP studios make money when they are bought and dubbed in to the US. All opinion of quality aside, dubs support the industry as a whole in both the US AND JAPAN which gives studios more money to make more anime and in better quality.

But since you don't like dubs, and think nothing should be brought to the US, you are essentially saying you don't care about the economy... you elitist prick.

uhh...one word - wow?

I really don't get how there are always the members in forums that just end up flaming the heck out of some other person's post. Hey, if you don't agree, just say so. Stop adding completely irrelevant and incorrect ideas such as assumptions (the most frequent and obvious mistake in logical arguments) and personal attacks. I'm not an "elitist prick", so stop saying that. Your signature says it all.

Unfortunately for your argument, I do know and am completely aware of the state of the current anime industry in the United States. You have the wrong idea of "as much business as possible" - you're essentially saying that the US cannot make "a lot of business" without their own English dubs. By the way, crunchyroll.com is making incredible amounts of money from contracts with anime studios for subtitled anime. The core of your argument is invalid.

You also made a personal attack here. You also assumed that companies releasing English dubs hurt me. WTH? How does that even affect me? I don't have anything to do with them. Oh look, Spain made a Spanish dub of this anime. So? Why do I care? O_o I just won't watch it. I don't give a care whether other people watch it or not. It's their choice.

By the way, voice actors actually do get paid much in Japan, as it is a well-established profession. However, this is not the case in America (and this is the main reason why English dubs suck). Oh, and you got the logic backwards. Voice actors exist because there are dubs to make, not the other way around. If there were no overdubs, voice actors would not exist anyways.

And of course studios in Japan get money when the US industry buys from them. (It's the same as if I bought a crate of apples from you. Oh look, you got money.) Sadly that didn't have anything to do with what I said. You incorporated an irrelevant topic into the real one to create a fake argument (in logic circles this is known as the straw man argument).

This had nothing to do with the economy. You're just saying that the economy will falter when the USA subtitles anime instead. That's a large stretch of an assumption, yet again. You seem pretty sure about what you said. What economy are you talking about? The USA? Japan? World economy?

Let me get this straight.
1. Japanese dubs for their anime are good.
2. English dubs for Japanese anime generally suck.
3. Therefore, I like Japanese dubs and hate English dubs.
4. As a result, I recommend others to try Japanese dubs. I also suggest that the US subtitle Japanese anime instead.

- and none of your "elitist" assumptions.

Most of the artists you guys are listing did anime songs... heheh I can't imagine why.

I recommend 嵐 (Arashi) for J-pop. "One Love" and "Crazy Moon" are among my favorite songs.

Then there's this one awesome song 「そばにいるね」 ("Soba ni Iru Ne") by 青山テルマ (Aoyama Teruma) featuring Soulja. You just have to listen to it.

To be honest, I don't want anime to be brought to the USA. I hate English dubs and how America censors a lot of parts in anime.
I want to keep it in Japanese. If you want to market it in the USA, subtitle it in English. That'll be enough.
And for those that want to understand Japanese dub, learn Japanese. It's really that simple, in a sense. XD

Joshua

Hey wazzup Chun! Nice panel you did there last week. It was my favorite one, one that made fanime panels worth going to.

I'm the guy that spent around a hundred minutes (which is the entire panel minus some of the spillover time) filming the panel. I'm afraid I probably didn't catch the first few minutes of the panel, but videos that go through my editing usually turn out awesome. (haha. self-praising.) Anyways, I'll get that to you after I get all 24 GB of it (raw format) onto my comp, edit it, and render it into AVI or MPEG format (which will probably be almost 1 GB in size - that's almost two hours for you XD). I'm going to burn all the footage I took (5 hours) at fanime onto DVDs. heheh...

ya know, for the NEGI pic, good luck finding it. But you know, JFGI. (Maybe some luck?!) I loled at that.

See ya next time. Or talk soon over ze interwebz.

AIM: TAPJoshua
or visit my blog and leave a comment. JoshuasSlice.wordpress.com

Joshua