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Glad to hear it's being looked into. I hope I am wrong!

Thanks again for your replies. I hope my last one didn't come off too combative, text communication shortcoming, was not intended as such at all. It's great to see the staff being so approachable and responsive!

Understood and yes, I was aware. They looked like military badges with eagles and other militaristic imagery and the dealer specifically said "I can tell you what you had to do to get each of those." I have never seen Manji presented this way. May be something worth checking on? Not so hard to wander through the dealer room to confirm or deny, yes?

I notice one dealer selling some medals with Swastikas on them. I don't know if this qualifies as "questionable goods" under the dealer contracts but it was certainly unpleasant to see. This was a booth mostly selling jrock paraphernalia so it wasn't Hetalia related. Who should we talk to when we see these sort of things at con? Thanks.

We have a maid cafe, and it's of our own, while fitting the definition of what makes a maid cafe. The only way where a butler cafe would work without taking anything away from the cafe we already have would be to change it outside of its already strict and rigid definition.

Of course. It is your project. I never insisted that the two be integrated or even run by the same people, or even that it has to happen. This would understandably divert your energy from what you enjoy.

And I NEVER said that there are more males than girls at conventions.

Noted, this was not an intentional misrepresentation but a mere misreading.

No matter what is said, the demographic is still significantly smaller... AND it's also less entertaining, especially if it only caters to the ones who enjoy it. Even if there are exceptions, in the general pov, you're excluding people with a butler cafe, whereas a maid cafe is for everyone. Don't assume that this is a casualty of "narrow-mindedness". What you're saying only addresses the tip of an iceberg.

If one accepts the condition that they must be authentic then yes. This is important to you, I can respect that.

I've mentioned already though, to better satisfy our attendees, we will think of some possibilities for future plans. Afterall, we and our maids do this out of pure fun and desire to make our cafe enjoyable. If I receive enough demand, I will bring it up during a meeting and see if anyone is supportive of this idea enough to invest the money into making it happen, otherwise, as we've all mentioned many many times before...

That is very fair. And heartening to see. Consider this one more voice in support.

I whole lot of words and intent have been put into my comments that isn't there. In the interest of avoiding any further misrepresentation I will repeat something from my initial post, with emphasis:

So, if you just aren't interested, think it's too much work etc. I get it. But the fact that it seems like the whole idea of anyone doing a butler-type cafe is being dismissed is I think why you are finding the issue repeating.

So then I invite you to run a butler cafe yourself at fanime. E-mail the chair and tell him your ideas and that you will be head of the department, and do it.

Which is really all that needed to be said, but without the additional denigrative comments and mansplaining.

There's a lot to respond to here so I'll try to condense it.

Authenticity - This one is a manner of preference. There are those who think con activities should directly reflect what happens in Japan. However, I don't see why the interaction can't have more fluidity as opposed to straight up imitation. They influence us and we influence them. I mean certainly you don't see a lot of Trekkie types in Japanese cons but I don't see anyone refusing them entry here. I understand that you feel it is important to recreate the experience of Japanese culture. To put it more bluntly, why is it not ok unless we are directly ripping off Japanese culture? This is probably a question better applied to con activities in general. I fail to see why you can't have something that that is Japanese-influenced. Why is that automatically "mocking" or a "bastardization"? Why can't that be a homage? A rigid imitation strikes me as uncomfortably close to fetishizing and actually creates distance with another culture as opposed to bridging it.

Appeal - This one strikes a cord because it seems to be a VERY gendered argument. Girls can enjoy cute girls but boys can't/won't enjoy cute boys. That's how it is and we don't care to (try to) change it, or that's how it is supposed to be for accuracy. Also as far as the actual number of women who like anime being small, well just a cursory glance around the con seems to contradict this. I suspect that like gaming, there is a certain stigma that makes them less likely to admit it in casual interaction but that is a another issue.

Frankly, I am not that invested in this specific issue. Given the specific framework you propose of staying in a theme some of the arguments make sense, but that's only if one accepts that framework. My comment was more a response to dismissive tone used and the unwillingness to think outside the box. Apparently this is de rigueur. I just think it is unfortunate that there isn't more flexibility as opposed to copying. That being said, I'm willing to let the issue rest because we are obviously coming from it from completely different viewpoints. Also, I brought it up in that thread only because the other one was locked.

I have read the various objections to having a "butler" type cafe as counterpart and I have to say that I think the reason why people are still bringing it up is because the objections aren't all that compelling.

I see people getting hung up on what a butler cafe is or isn't, but I don't see anyone demanding that such a venue stick to some rigid definition of what is done elsewhere. There is an obvious interest in having a place where nicely dressed bishounen-type male servers treat their clients in a fun/teasing manner. It seems like a missed opportunity.

Statements that such a venue would lack appeal to anyone but the female attendees make some major assumptions as well. First, there are many, many events at con that are geared towards the hetero-male attendees and no one ever worries about them appealing to females. Second, you are completely dismissing non-hetero male attendees or males who aren't all hung up on proving their masculinity and would go anyways to hang out with their friends who are checking it out. Third, lots of males would go just to see all the female attendees there, kinda like signing up for a class where you know most of the students will be women.

So, if you just aren't interested, think it's too much work etc. I get it. But the fact that it seems like the whole idea of anyone doing a butler-type cafe is being dismissed is I think why you are finding the issue repeating.

[the GazettE]

Here would be my top three in order of enthusiasm for each:

- the GazettE (a. their music and lives are amazing b.they have a very devoted fanbase who would fly in just to see them = more attendance/money for the con c. like chifunii, I may cry with joy)
- girugamesh (because they rock, hard)
- D'espairsray (again, amazing)