Messages

I read through that other thread.  I already understand what a host club proper is supposed to be like, and I'm not saying we make that.  I'm just suggesting that we entertain the idea of a butler cafe as it would be for Fanime.  As for the reasons, Kite, there may be some valid things, but if they amount to merely a little more work for staff for the trade off of more involvement and entertainment for the attendees, wouldn't it be worth the work?  As it's said, for fans by fans.  I take from that that the convention's primary purpose is to bring together people with a common purpose in, for lack of a better word, celebration for what they enjoy.  If one those things would be a butler cafe, again wouldn't it be good to consider it and, beyond that, check with the attendees that would be the ones that actual go to the event. 

For things that may be complicating creating a butler cafe, though, wouldn't many of those things apply to the maid cafe as well?  Yet we have a maid cafe.  The sole difference being swapping genders of the actual servers.

Also, if I sound harsh to staff, my apologies, but I want an interesting idea to be considered beyond just being humored.

I know it's come into consideration before, but have any of the maid cafe participants or other involved staff considered trying a butler cafe?  Fanime has grown a lot since I started attending.  While I might not personally go to the butler cafe, friends of mine that have gone have shown interest. 

Am I the only one that might want to see this?

Heading out to bed.  I'll reply w/e response in the afternoon tomorrow lol.  Was a fun day.  gg day1

See, now you're arguing correctly.

A) And you're still just whining because you want to be allowed to do something because you think it's okay to do at a convention... when it's not.

Which is my point, it applied to you in the past so the reason still stands.

"you want to be allowed to do something" Future tense.  Grammar is win.  I can't argue against something that is correct in your mind but not in writing.

Oh, and just because you got away with being drunk and idiotic, means that no one got busted for it? Sorry, people did get busted for alcohol, public drunkeness and other things. People had alcohol confiscated and other things happened. But you got away with it, which must mean something right? Because laws are enforced doesn't mean that everyone that breaks the law is caught/punished. There are people that are out drunk almost every night and a lot of them don't get caught.

Actually it was a reference to you, rather than myself.  Didn't stay at Fanime the full weekend last year.  Was a sad day.

You assume that this is "stupid". And now you're just arguing specifics to not argue the point. "WELL SO AND SO CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS!" which again, doesn't apply to the argument. I can go run amok, kill dozens of people, and not get caught, how does that apply to laws not existing for a purpose? A police officer can pull over whoever they want based on "suspicion" does that mean we don't need laws in place? Yes, they can enforce whatever the hell they want, what in gods hell are you even arguing at this point?

They can enforce the rule? What rule? The point of unsheathing a sword? Once more that rule is in place to prevent confusion and allowance of people to do something that is deemed dangerous. SO WHY ENCOURAGE THE ACTION? If there were no peace bonding, cops can still enforce the rule, but why force extra work on them. The rules are telling you not to do it, you are saying "I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO WHAT I WANT!"

"Okay, now, what if someone does that with a real sword... And starts killing people. Something that could have been prevented has the officer ASSESSED THE SITUATION AND HANDLED IT LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Your stupid rule change just caused 20 people to die. Good job."

That's what I was referring to.  I keep my stuff organized not just for looks, but because I don't want to lose my arguments.  Your statement infers that because of the rule change, he could no longer "[assess] the situation and handled it like he is supposed to do".  Your the one that inferred created stupidity on the part of the police.  Good job.

And once again, you are missing the point. That plastic means that staff has checked and okay'd that prop to be carried around. Now, if a person DOES draw their sword SJPD and staff will know that said person DIDN'T GET IT CHECKED and this person is now a risk to the safety of others and breaking con rules and possibly state law. This isn't about the people that can follow rules, this is about people that MIGHT NOT. This is about the protection of other people, because once more, this world isn't perfect and full of sunshine.

[Erased example because it's not an argument, but arguing point so it's still addressed]

And once again, you are missing the point.  That plastic means that staff has checked and okay'd the prop to be carried around.  Now, if the person DOES draw their sword SJPD and staff will know that said person DIDN'T GET IT CHECKED and this person is now a risk to the safety of other and breaking con rules and possible state law.  Except, in my case, the indicator is still there.  The plastic wraps are still in place.  So unless the person is going on a killing spree with a blunt wooden sword, we're still good on the safety meter as long as the checkers are competent.

Again, you missed the god damned point and are purposely not reading. What would happen if someone did that, and a cop pulled out his gun? What if a rover didn't know and tackled you to the ground because he couldn't see it was wood and THOUGHT you were going to swing it at someone? Besides the lawsuits between the involved parties, you just involved the convention, the convention grounds, and all of staff. You created an incident that would worry parents, and something that could be addressed on a higher level. Fanime is now a "questionable" convention because at the con, a police officer drew his gun, and someone swung his sword around. Because a staff member tackled someone down that looked like they were going to kill someone. Do you think that this will just be ignored? Do you think that people won't make a huge deal out of it? The con could probably get shut down. The convention center could possibly say "Nope, you can't have Fanime here any more". Parents can sue the con for allowing such dangerous conditions.

Operating in what if's once more.  The same what if's can be applied in any scenario.  What if someone was running around with his sword and a cop pulled his gun?  What if a rover didn't know and tackled you to the ground because he couldn't see it was wood and THOUGHT you were going to swing it at someone?  It's so generic that it can be applied to any weapon waved anywhere.  You guys deal with the liability issue there, yet the simple act of drawing a sword is too threatening?  Moreso than walking around with it freely?  Moreso than moving it around?  The two previous ones are allowable, yet unsheathing is banned.  The problem again is the double standard that can't be fixed unless you either a) ban openly wielded weapons (unsheathed) or b) repeal the ban on the interlocking of sword and sheath.

AWWW some kid in a college debate class that thinks using an outline means a damn thing. You don't even understand what fallacies are because nothing I claimed was a fallacy. The things I claimed were potential consequences and situations, all of them realistic. You are only seeing this from the POV of a cosplayer that wants to draw his sword so he can take pictures, but not looking at the perspective of other guests, staff, law, parents, or anyone else for that matter. The act in itself SEEMS harmless, and it is harmless for the most part based on who is doing it. But there's still potential of things going wrong, rules are there to prevent these potential wrongs from happening. This isn't even really a debate, this is informing you why this rule exists. This is getting you to try and understand why something like this is put into affect and how it affects other people. Get your head out of your ass and instead of strawman arguing everything (yes... because that is what you're doing ZOMG DEBATE WORDS!!!!) stick to THE ACTUAL SUBJECT MATTER.

Been thinking about taking that class actually.  More into politics, just lurk on my free time.  Lemme tell you why your argument is a fallacy.  While you do argue consequences, you don't argue the main issues (well you weren't before, but now you're getting there.  Your back to arguing intelligently, grats).  How can I say this?  I FORM the issues.  You were forming your own and going off on your own tangent, with about two points and the rest being sarcasm and capslock.

The subject matter is "Why do they peace bond the sword to the sheath even if it's a wooden sword".

Because, there is no way to tell whether or not a wooden sword is wooden when it's inside of the sheath. The action of unsheathing a sword is dangerous because one cannot assume the sword is wooden, and it's MORE LIKELY to believe that the sword is steel.

Why does that matter? Because this can create many problems. The action can be considered dangerous which may prompt action on the part of staff and SJPD. These actions may end innocently enough when the confusion of the sword being metal or wood is made more apparent, but when decisions are made in mere seconds, the consequences still last.

These consequences although unlikely could result in an officer even firing at someone. More realistically would cause a lot of legal issues between attendees, the SJPD and fanime con.

This may result in the convention being closed down, being sued for a lot of money, amongst the lesser bad publicity it would be guaranteed.

Now, what part of your little "skillfully debated splurge" in any way disproved any of that? These are all very real possibilities. Something you should keep in mind. I talk to staff at a lot of conventions, so I hear a lot of the stories of things that happen, and thankfully a lot of cons do pretty well and are pretty lucky in keeping things underwraps to the general attendees.

Conventions have rules to protect the attendees. Some of these rules may seem stupid or extreme, but most of them generally do make a lot of sense if you actually take the time to understand the rule. If you aren't happy with peace bonding, then don't go to the convention. The rules exists for the safety of others. They're not going to remove this rule just because a few cosplayers think it's unfair they can't pull out a sword to take a pretty picture.

No, there is a way to tell if it is wooden or not.  That's what the damn peace-bond does.  It indicates safety, does it not?  I don't feel like backtracking and checking the definition, but ultimately that's the purpose it fulfills.  If it's a wooden sword, it receives a peace-bond.  If it's not, then it doesn't.  That's the point.

You argue that they don't know if it's wood or not.  I say that the peace-bond indicates that.  They see it, then no problem.  Someone's drawing a sword, it has a bright yellow, pink, orange or whatever horrid color you want, and then you know it's been checked and is safe.  I conceded that you can even tag the sheath itself as well if you want double protection. 

1. Counterpoints

A) And you're still just whining because you want to be allowed to do something because you think it's okay to do at a convention... when it's not.

aa) In fact, the ruling on this issue at hand won't affect me in the least.  Of the three planned cosplays, only one has a sword and that will just be a prop on my back (Ironically my least likely to do, because the other two are more important to me).  So cut the presumptuous talk.  True, it has affected me in the past, but I bought a new one (Wooden since mine was live steel so I had to buy a new one anyway) and just had the tie around the hilt.  

B) In regards to my question posed (Not answered since you don't like reading your opponents arguments, just rant on what you feel), the third party that posted answered my question.  I was asking since if you were staff and were as nearly immovable as you seem to be, then the whole argument would be pointless.

C) Fallacy - Because it's a con does not mean laws are not enforced

aa) The black hole was an analogy (English 101 pls).  Rules ARE more lax there.

bb) Backing up point aa, if all laws apply as normal, how did the drunk and disorderly conduct citation go along?  Didn't get one?  Yeah, didn't think so.  That's because things not normally acceptable are given leeway.  Don't know what I'm talking about?  Stage Zero, about 9-10p last Fanime.  California Penal Code 647; since when have you been so into what's lawful?

D) Public Safety

aa) Your idiocy shines through.  Besides "Now who is to say, that someone doesn't unsheathe their sword, and a cop sees it, drawing his gun? OH IT'S A CONVENTION RIGHT?!??!?! PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPEN!" not making a lick of sense (well it does, but it follows no bounds of logic), there's "Okay, now, what if someone does that with a real sword... And starts killing people. Something that could have been prevented has the officer ASSESSED THE SITUATION AND HANDLED IT LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. Your stupid rule change just caused 20 people to die. Good job."  

You act as if the cops will suddenly go stupid once the rule goes into affect.  When they see someone swinging around a sword and blood and guts flying about, they'll just go "Hey, the rule about the peace-bond changed, what could I do?".  Note that they can still enforce whatever the hell they want.  If they want to see a Naruto group with one of the members drawing a sword as a threat they can.  The rules not going to stop them from doing what they do.

Speaking of things not stopping people from doing what they do, you seem to think that the plastic peace-bond is going to stop a crazed killer from going on a killing spree.  I can already see the reports, "Today, at an anime convention known as Fanime, a crazed citizen killed 20...  Oh only if there was a plastic wrap to have prevented him from drawing his sword and committing such a heinous crime."  Your argument is stupid.  If they have the resolve to kill someone, a piece of plastic is not going to stop them.  In fact, they wouldn't get the plastic thing in the first place, so your whole argument is demolished.

E) But like you said, law isn't canceled

aa) Yes, and neither is logic.  I've argued this already, (see all above points).  There is no law against possession of plastic or wooden weapons (or the whole of Toys R' Us would be confiscated).

bb) While it may or may not be true that drawing a sword is seen as threatening to a cop, the act is NOT against the law.  Yes, they can arrest you or take you into custody, but find me a law that prohibits the drawing of a wooden sword from a sheath.  Can't find it?  Oh.

2) Conclusion

I'm wholly disappointed at this argument.  You've done nothing but attack the attacker, use capslock and fallacies, and use sarcasm.  I remembered someone intelligent that posted, not some poster any /b/ troll could emulate.  Personal attacks don't constitute an argument against the plan (but if you have already, then hell go for it).  

Debate skills.  Get some.

Here, this will be more organized:

1. Topic I'M debating:  Should the peace-badge placement be adjusted so that it does not hamper the activities of cosplayers? 

a) Main sides seem to be safety vs. freedom (Expression?).

2.  Question: Are you speaking as a staffer, con attendee, regular poster, or just devil's advocate?

3. Explanations on a couple things

A) Swords regardless of sheath or not, are props.  Discriminating between the two is pointless.  Why?  Because:

B) If this was a case of outside con grounds, and in normal day life, your logic would prevail.  The only reason there's an actual grey area here is because it's a convention, where such rules are a bit more lax, social or otherwise.

4. Drawing from point 3, subpoint A, I propose my solution:

"While all legal weapons, assuming they are eligible to be brought on the con, whether functional or not, are required to be peace-bonded, the peace-bond should be placed on the sword itself rather than the sword and sheath interlocked.  If, in any case, the sheath is freely wielded (Not bound to the person in question, but instead held by hand), both the sheath and sword are to be peace-bonded.  If a weapon is ineligible to be carried around unsheathed, then it should then and only then be bonded to the sheath, with the cosplayer's request being the only other exception to this rule."

5. Advantages

A) Allows for those in attendance to be able to express themselves freely for the entertainment of those that wish to take pictures, view, watch or otherwise observe the cosplayers in question.

B) While it does detract the power of moderation ever so slightly, it increases the experience for attendees WITHOUT sacrificing safety.

6. Counter-points

A) Live Steel is not allowed at the con.

aa) This plan doesn't edit the ban on live steel at all, but instead applies to only the already allowed weapons on-site.

B) Safety is reduced, as it can be seen as aggressive if they draw their sword in front of a cop

aa) As stated in point 5, subpoint B, it does not detract from safety?  Why?  Because the weapon is tagged all the same as any other weapon, indicating that it is not a real threat, much akin to the orange markings on fake guns or swords without sheaths.

bb) The simple act of drawing your sword in every day life would NOT spark some sort of wide panic in a con.  Why?  Because it's a con.  Again, if it were everyday life, there would be no argument, but as we all know, an anime convention is a black hole removed from time-space.

cc)
=/= Threatening.

dd) Continuing on bb, police, regardless of jokes, are not dumb people and can figure out that it's a convention.  Especially when it happens every year at the same time. 

C) Few people complain about this, therefore the convention staff requires more persuasive force in order to implement such a rule

aa) It's too difficult to gather said names.  Half don't check the forums, a good quarter that do don't check the forums, and the rest may not even be cosplayers.  Want evidence?  Ask those who bring in applicable weapons if they rather have one peace-bond interlocking the sword and sheath or two allowing the weapon to be opened and closed.  It's currently not my responsibility maintaining the experience for the attendees, therefore not mine to do all the work.

7) Conclusion

A) I drew from this that my plan is the best one suggested, merely because it offers a maintaining of security, while allowing for a more interesting experience at the growing convention.  In fact, the only extra work you have to do is c/p the rule into the booklet and let your rovers read it.

Damn, a peace-keeper, that kills the fun =(

Yep I researched into it as well.  Since I think the thread is done, you should check out the knife laws too, as swords could probably fit under that category (There's seems to be no explicit sword references made, since cane swords seems to refer more towards that French-type sword).

[entirely]

Previous record:  1 thread agreed, 1 thread disagree with stalemate.  Let's see how this one turns out and have some fun, ne?

Your main argument seems to revolve around the fact that if you draw the sword, a police officer doesn't know if it's real or not, therefore will act accordingly (and justifiably so).  The problem with this is that even an unconcealed weapon needs a permit (do you, or any cosplayer for that matter, have one?  Didn't think so).  But even so, your argument that a police officer will not know the difference between a real sword or not is moot, because look at this situation:

Cop is walking down the street and someone is carrying around a katana wielded freely.  They won't react at all?  I think not.

Therefore, using your same logic that police officers may react badly if they see a threatening weapon (since they have no power of observation, again according to your argument), ALL weapons wielded freely, all fake guns, all wooden swords, everything must be banned, because hey, someone might get shot. 

My argument is based around the fact that swords without sheaths are tagged on the sword themselves, yet swords with sheaths are interlocked.  Double standard?  Maybe not an extremely double-standardish (I make up my own words from time to time, pardon that), but still a double standard nonetheless.  Therefore if you ban swords that can be unsheathed, then you might as well ban ones that have no sheath at all (Because hey, penal code and yourself "If you DO unsheathe the sword that's the same as showing aggression, or in a different light, cocking the hammer of a gun, at which point an officer can fire upon you." say so).

Allowing the argument to pass that police may react badly will set the precedent needed to remove any unconcealed weapons entirely from the con.

Label light switches A, B, C and Lamps 1, 2, 3.

Time limit here?  If not:

Switch on A for a couple days, it'll burn out.  Turn on B, leave C off.  Burnt one is A, lit is B, out is C.

[While all legal weapons, assuming they are eligible to be brought on the con, whether functional or not, are required to be peace-bonded, the peace-bond should be placed on the sword itself rather than the sword and sheath interlocked. If, in any case, the sheath is freely wielded (Not bound to the person in question, but instead held by hand), both the sheath and sword are to be peace-bonded. If a weapon is ineligible to be carried around unsheathed, then it should then and only then be bonded to the sheath, with the cosplayer's request being the only other exception to this rule.]

It's not a matter of them putting on the peace-bonds incorrectly or damaging anything for me.  It's, as I stated, leaning towards the method of peace-bonding (in cosplayers with sheathed swords cases, them being sealed from further use) rather than the policy of peace-bonding itself.  I've conceded and so has OP that peace-bonding is okay and good, but (and no, I don't have soild examples except for people I know personally) most cosplayers with sheathed swords dread having to go to rovers because then the poses they want to get done can no longer be done. 

Sure you can say it's in the name of safety, but if so, you might as well peace-bond scabbardless swords to people's cosplays as well, since we don't want the sword to be used in a bad manner. 

Sarcasm aside, I can't point out names not only because I don't know any of your names, even after 6 years or so of attendance, but because it's not incorrectly done by current policy.  If I had to revise the rule of peace-bonding for your rovers, it'd be this:

While all legal weapons, assuming they are eligible to be brought on the con, whether functional or not, are required to be peace-bonded, the peace-bond should be placed on the sword itself rather than the sword and sheath interlocked.  If, in any case, the sheath is freely wielded (Not bound to the person in question, but instead held by hand), both the sheath and sword are to be peace-bonded.  If a weapon is ineligible to be carried around unsheathed, then it should then and only then be bonded to the sheath, with the cosplayer's request being the only other exception to this rule.

In other words, people carry around wooden swords (boken, shinai, etc.) therefore all wooden swords and otherwise should be allowed outside of their respective sheaths.  Not only would this rule have precedent backing it's implementation (note previous sentence), but it would improve the cosplay experience for those it would affect.

/thread.

-

Yeah for sure.  Even OP has conceded the point, but do you guys understand the point that I'm making?  That while peace-bonding is necessary, the method by which they peace-bond the weapons should be looked into.

Carpooling amounts to what... a little under 1$ a day.  Of course it builds up, but overall that's a 30$ per month if you were to work every day of the week.  Encourages carpool, so I'll deal with it.  People going solo might as well take BART.  With the buses, it's completely plausible, just have to be wary of the traffic and delays. 

Of course that's just for the average person.  Now from the person who works in the city's perspective, it shouldn't be raised.  They make a lot of money in the mornings with the sheer amount of people incoming.  So I'd say for somewhere around 6a-10p there shouldn't be a raised amount.  Just make it completely time-based; if people can do time their carpool, they can time their bridge driving too.

And from the state's perspective, I see it as totally fine.  Prices for state-run things are going up; it's just a bit of equality all around so everyone's paying lots of money.

It's understandable for peace-bonding, but I just find it troublesome that the sword and sheath are bonded together.  Again it's understandable if it's a metal sword or whatnot, but if it's wooden, either accept it or don't.  A lot of cosplayer's poses depend upon being able to use their unsheathed sword.  I had the problem last time since I had a steel sword and obviously I couldn't unsheathe it; but when I bought a wooden version on con grounds, I got it tagged again and they made it so I couldn't take the sword out. 

Now you could argue that if you don't want that, just bring the sword itself, and not the scabbard.  But really, if I'm going to be walking around 10+ hours at the con, I don't want to have to carry around a sword, however light, especially if I'm going to be grabbing stuff from the dealer's room.

tl;dr - If the sword is acceptable, tag the sword, don't bind it to the scabbard; cosplayers want to be able to pose.  If it's not acceptable, don't accept it.

Win.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm172/xxaznduck22xx/Fanime%202008/100_0899.jpg

Not sure how come that would not be considered good.

1) It's definitely original.

2) It looks nice

3) It's an actual attempt to do something new.

Wewt, totally off subject stuff.  Bumps that are hidden bumps.  LoL

Yeah, well I know we have the meeting and all that, but anyone wanna have some sort of running game or something to give us extra entertainment while at the con?

Well, there's a chance that I'll go to the D.Gray Man Gathering, so might as well.  Going as Allen Walker in his initial Crowned Clown transformation and also as the same character with that buster sword looking thing.  Yesh.  Oh, I'll bring at least a Lavi, Komui or Miranda, Kanda, and Lenalee with me in a group.

Yeah, I had that same feeling

Good to know it's not just me.  Were you running off of no sleep, too?  Or were you rested at the time.  Just trying to figure out what it was exactly, because the Hilton's elevators didn't do it to me.

I suspect information on how to sell at swap meet for Fanime 2009 will be up when the Fanime 2009 website is up.

For the past two years, there has been online sign ups for Friday, and straight first-come, first-serve on Thursday.

Ohhhh, nice.  Thanks for the info.  Good to know.

Alright, first question is how do we sign up for the Swap Meet?  Do we just wait in that line or is there a method of registration?  Because I'm planning on selling my stuff.

Oh, but the main thing is what I plan on selling.

These are sets:

Pita-Ten - Full Collection 1-8 ($30, Very good condition)

Psychic Academy - 1-8 ($20, Decent condition, nothing obviously flawed, all inserts still inside)

Negima - 1-3 ($6-$10 Good Condition)

Tsubasa - 1-4 ($15 Good Condition)

Boys Be - 1-4 ($15-$20 Very Good condition)

Yu Yu Hakusho - 1-3 ($10 Very Good Condition)

Individual or set buys:

DNAngel - 2-8 ($5 Per Volume, $15 for set; One cover is bent, obviously used)

I'll edit this stuff later when I add more.  Tell me if you want something.