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Messages - Amoirsp

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General Convention Discussion / Re: FanimeCon 2012 Feedback
« on: June 10, 2012, 05:14:54 PM »
I hope you can still come back and you're welcome to come to me and have a great conversation so we can have a better understanding about the situation in a friendly matter.  I feel you when policies gets very complicated to follow that can limit our freedom of choices and what we want to play that can ruin our experience.  Policies will always change every year.  We will review this.  Thanks for the very detailed feedback.

Since the purpose of the feedback is to provide constructive criticism on cons and continue to do pros and other improvements, I'm interested in this.

See you next year.

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General Convention Discussion / Re: FanimeCon 2012 Feedback
« on: June 03, 2012, 10:55:14 PM »

I'm very sorry about your experience.  We do our best to try to have games available to play and make it fair for the Arcade so there's no conflict as friendly as possible.  Keep in mind that the standard policy is no refund are issue.  We will take note of your complaints so we can improve and work on our weakness.

Thank you for your fast response in this matter. I'm aware of the standard policy, but as you can imagine, going to eGaming to play, then realizing I can't, then not even being able to play one of your tournament hosted games, is a sickening feeling. That or being told ok you can't play something but then later on in the con you visibly see someone playing something that was stated as prohibited and getting away with it for a full duration (PC/laptop)

Thus instead of ratting more, I would just recommend bigger signs, particularly one that says perhaps how much is in stock. Maybe even who owns what game, because knowing the disc for the game being available didn't matter if the staff that owned the game was too busy to even rent through the rental agreement. Now I'm sure it won't go that far since that's too much information, but I'd like to be less clueless.

Or just say you can't bring/use your own PC/laptop/console/game/device AT ALL. Just prohibit all of it but the controller, because that's what it felt like. The games that were played at eGaming were either eGaming approved or brought by Digital Storm (or both). Even then, the only games that could be played are the staff owned (or Digital Storm owned) games. [Definitely specify this]. If this isn't true then you weren't being consistent on this matter. I can understand no setup/device/console/etc. I can understand I can't load a game that's not Fanime approved, but not being able to load a game that IS Fanime approved was outright awkward (until someone explained to me the liability reasons only then did it make sense).
Yeah, it felt like restricted play, not free play. Again it was all bad timing since the head was too busy running tournaments for the next x hours so I couldn't even proceed to actually play/rent via the rules so I didn't bother wasting my time after that waiting for essentially nothing.
The more I think about it the more it was "last minute stuff" more than "eGaming did wrong" so it's just a giant compound effect that was just horribly unpleasant.

Going through eGaming 2011 information as my only source of information prior to eGaming 2012 sucked. Perhaps a distinct section saying "changes to 2013" I would say would help. Or big signs saying who is the head, who is running what tournament, who on volunteer/staff actually is relevant to inquire about eGaming. Otherwise I fear eGaming which was intended to be fun, turns out no fun. [Well, again it was just bad timing, because even when 2 PM rolled around, the Artist Alley and Dealer's Room looked half empty because artists/dealers were still stuck in line at the time.]

Even playing the Arcade, which was a different division, wasn't too thrilling when the quality of the sticks on the arcade weren't up to par, and there weren't USB options to plug in .. what do you know ... your own controller/stick.

... or maybe have a completely free play distinct room where you can BYO(whatever item) but it's all self risk with a huge disclaimer saying Fanime isn't liable for whatever happens in there. Though, that idea probably was thrown out and discussed but deemed not wise.

In short:
Prohibitions stated on forums is cool, but perhaps have a gigantic sign that's even more visible.
Let the fans know what can be played or how much is available in stock. You had a Tournament of BB:Extend so naturally attendees thought your free play PS3s could play it, but you guys had exactly one copy (and a million BB:CT copies) available but also not available because the , which only staff would know who owns what anyways. It may be privy information but to an oblivious attendee it just looks like weird hoarding.
If there's a huge difference to a previous eGaming year, note it in advance somehow. I don't want generic explanations, I have read the rules as best I can and the parts that bothered me were like invisible exceptions/rules.
Digital Storm promoting Diablo III seemed fine on a PC standpoint, but eGaming (and Arcade) seemed to promote "tournaments" or some form of competition, so having that there seemed rather awkward. It's like having a staff member playing his/her own copy of a PS3 RPG game at Fanime. Nice promotion, but weird reality. Almost feels like an exclusive member zone or something.

On a positive note, the fact that you had those online-only-for-the-most-part Blizzard games active also means you had internet connection. Cool, since the room if I recall basically didn't have internet in previous eGaming years.
As stated to death, the liability explanation makes the situation make much more sense. But prior to that, before learning why, it does look really ridiculous to someone who merely wanted to play an electronic game at Fanime.
And it's fine to have a good up to date topic on forums but ... perhaps better relocation from the main site? The main Fanime site looked empty many times and was not the right place to look for eGaming information for the most part.
Not allowed to play your own electronic device? Fine. Trying to play an approved game? Ok let's try that. Last year it felt like there was a surplus of free play devices and a good variety, while this year it felt like there was a huge shortage of like, everything. That's when the reality of eGaming seemed to take a nosedive. It's like uh this has nothing to do with anything, why am I here again?

Well, as long as improvements are done, I say good luck and hope it works! I won't be here to see it but it'd be nice to hear positive commentary on eGaming when I talk with people.



On a completely different feedback note, I wasn't too thrilled that Fanime resource on pre-registration had a Bill Me Later option. The concept of it was fine, until I realized when I clicked "I agree" I thought it was just a continue button (or "yes I read this"), NOT a "congratulations you just signed up for Bill Me Later, with an account number you don't know of yet, with a website you haven't seen yet. Also we credited $50 to this account. You can't go back and change into a credit card payment option for Fanime resource and they can't help you either since they already got paid hahaha."

I might have been blind but I don't remember seeing this thing manifest in my previous two registrations.

Fanime was paid, which was fine, but I had an outstanding balance of an account number I didn't know of. My information is with a third party I'm unfamiliar with. Checking with Fanime registration didn't help too much, as FanimeReg confirmed it's paid. I'm sitting at my computer back when I paid going like ok, where did this $50 go? What just happened? Oh my goodness. I went paranoid for the next few days because I didn't have a clue where to pay down the $50, and I know I had not paid $50. That and Bill Me Later doesn't take credit card (which was what I intended to do in the first place) so I ended up linking my bank account to Bill Me Later much to my dismay because I didn't get a statement until later.

I hope nobody that clicked the Bill Me Later option forgot to pay that third party back.
Probably nothing bad happened but I wouldn't be surprised if it caught one person off guard. The nasty things that could happen don't manifest until like, 6+ months pass anyways, and Fanime isn't liable either.

That's about it. Props to the staff for EFFORT because the reality was there were too many things going on for the staff for them to take care of everything. It was a lose-lose situation, not a "hmph screw you" or "I don't care" attitude thought it did look like that on several occasions, it probably is cause and effect.

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General Convention Discussion / Re: FanimeCon 2012 Feedback
« on: June 03, 2012, 12:11:50 AM »
I'll try to be as civil as possible. I will try my best not to sound like I'm trying to attack anyone. I was simply discouraged.

Please excuse the run-on sentences, the poor grammar structuring, or if I inadvertently offended anyone.

The reason why I was so angry at eGaming also had to do with wrong place wrong time. Basically the incident happened on Friday morning, before most of the events/hall/panels were even open. Due to rules/regulations/policies that felt either inconsistent, somewhat invisible like fine print on a cloud, or poorly implemented ruined my day so badly I literally got fed up and went home. I just said out loud "I've had it, I'm going home" and unfortunately the source cause was eGaming despite the volunteers being remotely helpful. That was it for Friday, completely cut the evening off, missed interesting panels, whatever. I reluctantly went back Saturday since I got to see a friend who finally joins me at Fanime after trying to get that person to come (and hadn't seen the person in two years), but my mood turned sour by then and I boycotted the gaming room entirely.

The Bad
* egaming BYOC
I can explain the 3 reason why our department  won't allow having other attendees bringing their own console and set up their own games:

1. Legal liability issues.  Lots of contract forms to sign (both for eGaming and logistics/ConOps), inventory re-checkup, equipment confusion (especially with PS3/XBox360/Wii that has DLC content).

2. Conflicts with arcade, if said game(s) are shown in the Arcade, like Super Street Fighter IV Arcade, DDR, etc.  No setting up console nor use games that Arcade has which some attendees might do.

3. Illegal content.  People most likely will bring hacked console.  This also applies to Laptop being displayed such as if someone does set up Stepmania publicly connecting a usb converter with a ddr pads.  People even set up illegally download arcade hacked to pc that Arcade has which can violate what said in #2.


I'm too dumb to know how to quote two people at the same time, but if the head xxxplizit (pogi1kenobi) is willing to make adjustments or improvements, then I tip my hat to you and will rescind my earlier statement.

So, basically the 3 major pointers mentioned here is what I learned after arguing with your division on Friday morning. Now it was entirely possible I was more easily annoyed because of the 3 hour morning wait and the fact that the other two exhibition halls weren't open until 2. Hence the only hall open at the time was the gaming room.

I'll be honest, all I wanted to do was play an electronic game in the game hall in peace. No, that's not what happened at all.

So basically back in Fanime 2010 and Fanime 2011 as a relatively new attendee, my impression as an unaware fan is like "oh hey eGaming has a cool variety. They got smash, they got old games/classics, they even have starcraft." During that time I also couldn't possibly have been aware of how much trouble eGaming had gotten by with the 3 reasons listed above due to attendees that clearly violated the rule (illegitimate copies or whatever hack stuff). During that time I thought hey Fanime is pretty cool to exercise gaming variety, particularly ones not often seen. Since I'm not into the big name games, I respected that.

Basically in 2011 I noticed some people weren't permitted to play some games. Ok, from what I heard it was basically "yeah you can't play a game that's already on the arcade since it dissuades users from the arcade". OK that makes sense. To confirm my suspicion, before Fanime 2012 I made sure to ask Fanime during 2011 "OK, can I play a game that ISN'T on the arcade, that isn't already visible or even a remote conflict to any tournament/arcade/whatever?" The answer I got was YES so I took out my laptop and played it for like 30 minutes. There was no conflict at the time. Why? Well either it was invisible or it was because at that time PC Gaming was BACK and you guys used to have a website dedicated to the 2011 version that's no longer there. It specifically linked to a 2010 forum post where bringing in PCs or Laptops were clearly implied as possibilities. Also, PC Gaming for 2011 was not really (as pointed out on there or MAYBE IT IS) too restricted, as it was newer and since there was an influx of demand to encourage more PC game variety, it was more open.

Even on the general section of eGaming at that time said as follows: "FanimeCon eGaming is always open in Exhibit Hall 3! Bring a friend or make new friends while playing through FanimeCon’s wide collection of new and classic games. Here you can simply play for fun, or you can compete in one of our many video game tournaments for glory and prizes!"
So the mentality I had going into Fanime 2012 was initially similar to this. Well, what a shell shock after I did come in. I should have taken the keywords FanimeCon's wide collection of new and classic games because of the newfound restrictions I came to quickly realize in 2012 which do not very clearly show up anywhere.

Perhaps when I was asking Fanime for more information, I generally inquired registration or the generic Fanime email which as you can tell, has absolutely nothing to do with eGaming, so whatever answers I got relating to electronic policy or registrations was rather moot.

Had I known about the liability issues and more on that end more in detail, this would have made more sense. But no, when you promote the eGaming section you detail the tournament information, the general but important rules, the games that will be featured, all the positives. Not the history of liability issues or why the rule came to be. (After I learned about the reason, yes I can fully understand and it's totally the offender's fault. What I didn't like is that the enforcement also indirectly pseudo-locked away things that weren't as clear and distinct).

Since Fanime 2012 was so late on updates, guess what? The only information I can go by was 2011 as a starting point. When I inquired about it by email I was referred back to the site which shows the same 2011 information! (This happened even on things in general, hence I was also frustrated with 2012 being so last minute). I'm like look I wanted 2012's policies but your websites and all that all have old 2011 information, am I seriously supposed to rely on last year's data if it's subject to change (and I have no idea when, even if it is)? This was long, long before March 2012 when xxxplizit (pogi1kenobi) posted the 3.0 version. At the time I only used the forum for registration questions because I had no issue with eGaming in 2010 nor 2011.

I'm not going to do a laptop argument. The 3.0 revision distinctly said no laptop. The only thing I can say here is can you please make it much more obvious either at the eGaming tables themselves, or make the Fanime website put it up on code of conduct, or even mention it on your twitter even though the point of the tweets is to promote the events not repeat the rules? This is what your staff literally told me: In the eGaming section you're limited to eGaming enforcement. Hence, you basically told me oh you can try playing the laptop elsewhere not at eGaming, like the tabletop area, if they allow it. Well, they didn't, and it makes sense because it's not a tabletop. Alright, so outside the gaming area was implied too. Ok, a rover on the outside of the facilities said no, you can't play your laptop here, you have to play it in eGaming or the gaming room.
Congratulations, you gave me an infinite loop equation. After learning you guys are separate departments, it makes sense why I got redirected infinitely like that, and also why Fanime didn't have a generic disclaimer since the rules are different in each section. Since the Hilton hotel and stuff were basically also under the con's jurisdiction I basically get the message that I can't use my laptop, at all. (I had the computer on me for secondary functions like ... maybe checking the saved map files or maybe go online outside of the exhibit hall to see if I could find online any new last minute 2012 changes.)
Again thinking on the con end of it it makes a lot of sense. On a casual fan end of it, no it wasn't really pleasant at all.

On another note it's nice that the city regulation things come to light since that is why you had the rovers behave the way they did. Why Fanime structured things seemingly terribly when actually there were a lot of city and law limitations. While it's not necessary for Fanime to disclose these things, the seemingly disorganization and all that actually do have source causes that make sense when you think on the business end.
However, on a casual fan spectrum again it just looks like terrible management or the con going downhill or disappointing when really that's not all there is to it at all.

Ok anyhow instead of mumbo jumbo I narrowed a full wall of text (which I ended up doing anyways) complaints into a few things that I just want a simple answer so I don't get told one answer and get enforced the opposite. That's where I keep saying the policy was inconsistent. After thinking about it, in your shoes it makes a LOT of sense, but in a casual fan aspect, without knowledge of the source reasons, it just makes your division sound like *insert a word we're trying not to use that implies controls and limitations*

First thing I want to know, and this is the least important: I was notified in the gaming room there were like 3 more additional PC setups and people were playing Diablo III. If this was sponsored by Digital Storm, I don't have a problem with this. If this was NOT sponsored by Digital Storm, I have a problem with this, unless the eGaming division approved it. I don't see "tournament" making sense with that game.

See, one thing is that I don't know which games are approved. From the end of 2011 it was very clear what message I got from eGaming: Don't play a game that exists on the arcade. The arcade always changes but I can assume IDAS, Tekken, SF, BB, whatever games you'd typically find in an arcade game would apply. In 2011 you guys did not show any sort of qualms whatsoever with me playing on my laptop for the short duration that I did. At the time, the rulesets did not particularly specify laptops. It is true that bringing your own console rule was very clear in 2011 hence it was very easy to apply in 2012. It's possible I played on my laptop for such a short duration that it did not stem any relevant problems even if I did accidentally violate one of the rules. Since my item in question wasn't an arcade game whatsoever, I originally thought "oh hey I can play my favorite game with people I haven't seen in literally a year or even new found faces at the con." You know, cuz it's fun when you have passerbys that say oh I recognize that, oh I want to play with you, oh I remember that game! Yeah none of that joy could surface, thanks for ruining it unintentionally.

Second thing: alright, no PC/laptop setup. ok sure I won't take out my laptop and there will be no problems. Except when I was notified about this rule I was told you can't bring your own electronic devices. Then I had a small problem with that. You're covering consoles, PC, laptop (note the outside eGaming restriction called rovers) all as electronic devices. But since I'm trying to take your staff's explanation to heart, you're also completely telling me handheld electronic devices and mobile app games on a phone also constitute electronic devices not allowed in eGaming. Enforcement on that? Not really from what I saw. Hence I cry foul on inconsistency either on implementation or getting a more straight policy answer. If someone is using a handheld device or a mobile device to play say, Street Fighter (or not street fighter aka not a tournament game), then the rule of the Arcade condition is being broken. This was probably bypassed or ignored because the devices are very small. I'm not arguing the implementation, but at that point I thought the principal at this point looked more to me like "don't see don't tell" and something dumb like that happened (aka if my laptop was magically tiny it's probably passable, but no I want to at least try to follow the rules).

I basically didn't like how your enforcement basically weeds out electronic devices, but not really, but yes really, but not really. In the end these are more like rants so I don't expect this to change, so whatever.

Third thing: Ok this one I actually did have a problem with. Since the games on the eGaming tables were not only restricted to what Fanime brings with those arcade rules, but you apparently are also subject to Fanime's limited supply of discs to actually play the games. This I actually wouldn't mind you improving on.. Let me do a direct example.

It was like, 11:00 AM, I just got out of the long pre-reg line. I see a tournament for say, Blazblue Extended at 12 PM. Alright, what's the first thing I have in mind? Hm, practice for the tournament, or play the game, since it's on the allowed list and is upcoming. Here was the problem: I was notified by the staff the head of the eGaming division was the only one with the only Blazblue Extended copy on hand was too busy to get around to lend the game because he was preoccupied with another tournament. I think by the time I got back from lunch at 2 PM the game still wasn't available and the tournament ended anyways.
Ironically you had an earlier version of Blazblue, which I was told totally plays differently. It's like playing Smash Melee to play Smash Brawl.
The part I found dumb, while it makes sense liability wise, was that I couldn't simply put my own copy of Blazblue Extended, an already approved Fanime game into the console in front of me, which I also got authorization to use on free play.
Your rule set very clearly said you can't bring your own console. Please also put you can't bring your own copy of the game.
It's probably implied you won't bring your own copy of the game if you can't bring your own console. But then you encourage people to bring their own controller (I won't even get to how my PS2 controller wasn't even compatible with your consoles. You had the older Blazblue game which is PS2 playable, and back in 2011 with Fanime eGaming's LARGE number of N64s and PS2 TOTALLY gave me the idea it could appear in 2012. Well ... no not really.)

Again, when thinking on a liability standpoint, with your rules and such, it makes sense. But when your mind just says "I just want to play one of the Fanime approved games on this TV with this console in front of me ready to free play" and the reality says you can't, it's just very discouraging. That's how my day and overall experience got completely ruined to the point that I would dare say words like cancerous or even "can the eGaming division". I was so mad I was thinking ok if there was no eGaming and people just brought PC/laptop at risk to an empty but distinctly free use table area ... well first off, the PC is so big one wouldn't dare be away from his/her own PC and the laptop is portable. Consoles well you can think a similar mentality. [Obviously this doesn't happen now that the liability and other major reasons came to surface, and naturally Fanime doesn't really put "reasons why we don't allow these things". This isn't like code of conduct which is more like common sense and to make the place safe.]

I mean yes I'll admit if eGaming had to put a large sign saying "yeah we're not allowing console/PC/laptop due to liability issues" and the whole reasoning behind it, it's like excessive disclosures. However, if you don't put any indication to the real reason it just looks like you're limiting what people can play, and that's what happened. True you made things safer and less liable, but you also negated who can play what almost all the way. Also when the tournament games were under way, so much attention and focus for the staff and fans was redirected to the high level competition, it's probably possible for people to sneak in bad things like setups on free play. [This is why I went ballistic when I heard about people playing Diablo III on 3 (additional?) computer setups during the tournament. But I assumed it was not approved. Chances are it were, but how would I know? There's no way to know.]

My negative energy gave me words like "Fanime just did Bait & Switch on you." "This was False Advertising." "I do not see these fine print rules you are trying to enforce. It seems to be in this invisible cloud and even your staff admitted it." I mean sure, most of the rules were there but it just felt like a good chuck turned wishy washy, especially when people aren't looking or noticing, then it just gets weird.

tl;dr I felt eGaming was unorganized and inconsistent. Since the rule set only applies to eGaming itself, limitations on PC/laptop/setup elsewhere not called eGaming is subject to jurisdiction not called eGaming. Therefore one gets hit by different sets of rules. It may be correct in each division and properly implemented, but as a whole Fanime experience it just feels like a bad redirecting loop.
I don't mind complying to rules but I sure hate it when it could be evident the same rule is broken in pretty large fashion. Since Friday before 2 PM pretty much Exhibition 3 was the only hall that was open, to basically be told "yeah you can't play this via our rules" just gave me the feeling I paid Fanime to tell me I can't play what I want to play with people I'd see not even annually. That sure sucked, even if I misinterpreted a billion things, I sure got the wrong message so my impression was darn awful.

I did way too many run on sentences and ranted too much. You can ignore most of what I said, but the confusion and weird implementation feeling/messages and all that was seriously, seriously discouraging. I wanted to file a complaint, I wanted a refund. I was seriously irate. I even considered looking at the law spectrum despite that being a terrible idea. I asked myself why did I come to Fanime to wait for hours for nothing (Thursday), still wait as long on Friday, get restricted by what is there (eGaming), and then feel like I got pooped on?

I'm just venting on the principal as the enforcement implementation felt weird. It's so rattling confusing that I can't even talk about it straight. Fans can't see the contractual stuff, the behind the scenes stuff, so it looks terrible on real time reality even though there are very plausible reasons. When it's all said and done it all makes sense, but during real time it's a big downer losing all that time or being limited.

EDIT: My sentence structure is still terrible.

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General Convention Discussion / Re: FanimeCon 2012 Feedback
« on: May 28, 2012, 05:58:00 PM »
Actually no point in making that long of a post.

1) Artist alley was great.
2) I was extremely disappointed with eGaming's inconsistent policy implementation leading to dumb things.

The rest of the pros and cons are mentioned in one way or another and were more or less caused by unforeseen circumstances and disorganized information.

Swap Meet unbadged was cool, but let us know sooner. I felt like prior to Fanime there wasn't really any announcements of anything.

I'm just going to say eGaming was so cancerous I'm very much discouraged from returning to Fanime ever again, you can thank them for that. Long lines sucked but that's ok you were understaffed it seemed so messes happened. See you around.

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