Weapons/props policy?

[BumbleB]

Members of the Prop Whores ;D
BumbleB
Black Kawaii Kitty
Yukari Kaiba

[Runewitt]

the only reason the police should stop you would be if someone felt threatened by it, or if you wer holding it/exposing it in a threatining manner. i've walked through downtown san jose with a painted sword stuck in a sash at night and havent been stopped by anyone. even if you are stopped by the police, just explain that it is just a wooden prop. there shouldnt be a problem. if it gets piece-bonded into the sheath, just keep it like that when you're outside of the con, that way if you are stopped, you can show the police that it's impossible for you to draw the sword out.

edit: this post is based singley on my personal experience, and should not be referenced for all cases. please refer to the 2009 weapons policy for specifics.

[Jerry]

there is a WEAPONS POLICY as well as SJPD municipal code that strictly bans certain weapons/props that look like weapons on both the convention center grounds AS WELL AS PUBLIC SPACES [ where most cosplay gatherings are held... ie the foutains outside ]

if the police wont stop you, our staff will:

so please be weary and DO ALL RESEARCH necessary before bringing these types of weapons/tools/ props to the convention

Yo Steve or ROVERS = CONs ops peeps:

Do we have an updated copy of the weapons/prop policy up somewhere up for this year?

a link would be greatly helpful [ i dont know where it is... ]  >_<

FYI [ I could be wrong but from ROVERS - Safety and weapons prop training: ]

NO LIVE STEEL AT THIS CON. PERIOD no exceptions
[minus weapons purcahsed and SEALED only storage [meaning hotel room or vehicle ONLY]]

NO CHAIN WEAPONS OF ANY KIND - this IS considered a FELONY to own and carry in public by SJ Municipal code.

wooden weapons [like your sword] will be changed to an ACCESSORY TYPE, meaning it will be peace bonded in such a manner it will NOT be able to be pulled or handled in a swining motion- meaning it will be permantently tied to your costume and not be used for hand held or posing positions.

[Yukari Kaiba]

just a comment regarding wooden swords being tied to the costume - I've had this done to me before at Fanime back in 2007, and not only did it make posing for pictures incredibly limited, but it made it extremely hard and really uncomfortable to sit. How are we supposed to be able to use the restroom if we have props bound to us?

[Charis]

There are also certain kinds of wooden swords and suchlike that there is no easy means of permanently attaching to the costume: I'm thinking primarily of Final Fantasy and the like, but I'll also be dealing with what's pretty much an oversized katana worn like a purse for one of my cosplays.  For instances like that, it's a bit confusing as to how this sort of thing would be viable, let alone make for any sort of comfort in some of the con areas, as Yukari points out.
Is this an official or semi-official policy thing, or something that isn't set in stone as of yet?  I don't recall seeing the official prop guidelines, but I may just have missed them.

[BumbleB]

just a comment regarding wooden swords being tied to the costume - I've had this done to me before at Fanime back in 2007, and not only did it make posing for pictures incredibly limited, but it made it extremely hard and really uncomfortable to sit. How are we supposed to be able to use the restroom if we have props bound to us?

If I have to tie my  katana to my costume, forget it. I don't want to make my experience at Fanime uncomfortable and not as fun; I'll just bring my sister's plastic katana. Sure, it won't be as authentic, but hey, there's always Sac Anime. ;D (and I was really getting the whole "ribbon twirl" down. :()

[Steve.Young]

As a general rule, most people don't realize but carrying a lot of the weapons that we overlook outside of con = possible arrest as many of them fall under certain weapon categories that are illegal.

As a general rule, we make sure to peace bond a weapon to you/your costume for purposes of not hurting anyone/causing SJPD undue stress. If this causes problems in terms of personal comfort, I regret to inform you that you would be better served not to bring the weapon.

Before you say "But I could carry this at this other convention", each city and county has it's own laws and penal codes/statues regarding what they consider illegal and legal. Each is different, thus if you could do something another convention, it does not necessarily translate into being able to do it for Fanime.


I will be posting a legal version of our 2009 weapons policy shortly.

[Yukari Kaiba]

As a general rule, we make sure to peace bond a weapon to you/your costume for purposes of not hurting anyone/causing SJPD undue stress. If this causes problems in terms of personal comfort, I regret to inform you that you would be better served not to bring the weapon.

even if its situated in a spot where it doesn't make us uncomfortable, how are cosplayers going to be able to use the restroom if its physically bound to us outside of our costume?
I'm not trying to start anything, but if its going to be like this nobody is going to be able to bring anything and I would think you're going to have to deal with a lot of unhappy people. Did something happen last year that caused the policy to get stricter or is it updated just for the sake of updating it?

[BumbleB]

As a general rule, we make sure to peace bond a weapon to you/your costume for purposes of not hurting anyone/causing SJPD undue stress. If this causes problems in terms of personal comfort, I regret to inform you that you would be better served not to bring the weapon.

even if its situated in a spot where it doesn't make us uncomfortable, how are cosplayers going to be able to use the restroom if its physically bound to us outside of our costume?
I'm not trying to start anything, but if its going to be like this nobody is going to be able to bring anything and I would think you're going to have to deal with a lot of unhappy people. Did something happen last year that caused the policy to get stricter or is it updated just for the sake of updating it?

I agree. I think not as many people are going to bring anything. We also wouldn't be as authentic. Most characters are know best by their props.

[Steve.Young]

The weapon is physically bound to your costume, not necessarily to you. In certain circumstances/costumes/weapons some may require some extreme peace bonding, but that rarely happens.

This policy has been intact for years, we have YET to actually receive any complaints about this being too strict.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

The weapon is physically bound to your costume, not necessarily to you. In certain circumstances/costumes/weapons some may require some extreme peace bonding, but that rarely happens.

This policy has been intact for years, we have YET to actually receive any complaints about this being too strict.

We haven't have we >=D?
In my humble opinion I find it to be to strict.
But thats just me who carries around his wooden Katana around his neighborhood to scare the little boys my sister 'trys' to hang out with.

[Black Kawaii Kitty]

The weapon is physically bound to your costume, not necessarily to you. In certain circumstances/costumes/weapons some may require some extreme peace bonding, but that rarely happens.

This policy has been intact for years, we have YET to actually receive any complaints about this being too strict.

...no we just all complain on the forums and other sites after the convention is over with.
You also just contradicted yourself, we are wearing the costume therefore the the weapon is bound to us. This means if we try to go take a piss in a Bleach costume we're going to have one hell of a time trying to do so if we can't get our pants off. The policy has been there but never so overly strict or absurd. From what I've seen it's a known fact that people with large props/swords don't go swinging them around because they've spent a shit ton of money building them. An experienced Cloud cosplayer isn't going to be swinging his $500 handmade sword around to look cool, he's going to be careful with it and make sure not to hit anyone. Same thing goes for my DMC crew. The only ones rovers would really need to worry about are the usual gun props, and the occasional underage kid with a bought prop who isn't being watched by his parents when they should be.

You need to start cooperating with cosplayers to reach fair agreements instead of making up whatever rules you want because if you keep this up then people will stop coming due to all of the complaints, and I appreciate it if rovers made sure there aren't any power hungry newbies running around harassing cosplayers just because they're jealous or not completely informed kthx. Plus, this goes out to a good friend of mine, let the guys wear their spartan stuff for shit sake because I really don't see the fairness of them being forced to wear pants when there's a ton of chicks running around nearly naked without you guys batting an eye.

[Yukari Kaiba]

just to add on to what Kitty has already said...
you say the policy has been intact for years? If thats so, how was I able to get my wooden katana for one my Bleach cosplayes approved AND I was able to pose with it no problem last year? If I recall correctly, that section about the wooden props wasn't in last year's policy (and I always double check to make sure my stuff is ok to bring).
If the policy has always been like this, it obviously has never been enforced, or the degree of enforcement varies on who's at the peacebonding table. If theres standards for whats acceptable and whats not, it seems to me from what I've experienced having gone to this convention since 2002 that not all the rovers categorize the props according to those standards.

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

The weapon is physically bound to your costume, not necessarily to you. In certain circumstances/costumes/weapons some may require some extreme peace bonding, but that rarely happens.

This policy has been intact for years, we have YET to actually receive any complaints about this being too strict.

...no we just all complain on the forums and other sites after the convention is over with.
You also just contradicted yourself, we are wearing the costume therefore the the weapon is bound to us. This means if we try to go take a piss in a Bleach costume we're going to have one hell of a time trying to do so if we can't get our pants off. The policy has been there but never so overly strict or absurd. From what I've seen it's a known fact that people with large props/swords don't go swinging them around because they've spent a shit ton of money building them. An experienced Cloud cosplayer isn't going to be swinging his $500 handmade sword around to look cool, he's going to be careful with it and make sure not to hit anyone. Same thing goes for my DMC crew. The only ones rovers would really need to worry about are the usual gun props, and the occasional underage kid with a bought prop who isn't being watched by his parents when they should be.

You need to start cooperating with cosplayers to reach fair agreements instead of making up whatever rules you want because if you keep this up then people will stop coming due to all of the complaints, and I appreciate it if rovers made sure there aren't any power hungry newbies running around harassing cosplayers just because they're jealous or not completely informed kthx. Plus, this goes out to a good friend of mine, let the guys wear their spartan stuff for shit sake because I really don't see the fairness of them being forced to wear pants when there's a ton of chicks running around nearly naked without you guys batting an eye.

Lol wut?

[BumbleB]

I'm going to update. :)

[Steve.Young]

The weapon is physically bound to your costume, not necessarily to you. In certain circumstances/costumes/weapons some may require some extreme peace bonding, but that rarely happens.

This policy has been intact for years, we have YET to actually receive any complaints about this being too strict.

...no we just all complain on the forums and other sites after the convention is over with.
You also just contradicted yourself, we are wearing the costume therefore the the weapon is bound to us. This means if we try to go take a piss in a Bleach costume we're going to have one hell of a time trying to do so if we can't get our pants off. The policy has been there but never so overly strict or absurd. From what I've seen it's a known fact that people with large props/swords don't go swinging them around because they've spent a shit ton of money building them. An experienced Cloud cosplayer isn't going to be swinging his $500 handmade sword around to look cool, he's going to be careful with it and make sure not to hit anyone. Same thing goes for my DMC crew. The only ones rovers would really need to worry about are the usual gun props, and the occasional underage kid with a bought prop who isn't being watched by his parents when they should be.

You need to start cooperating with cosplayers to reach fair agreements instead of making up whatever rules you want because if you keep this up then people will stop coming due to all of the complaints, and I appreciate it if rovers made sure there aren't any power hungry newbies running around harassing cosplayers just because they're jealous or not completely informed kthx. Plus, this goes out to a good friend of mine, let the guys wear their spartan stuff for shit sake because I really don't see the fairness of them being forced to wear pants when there's a ton of chicks running around nearly naked without you guys batting an eye.

Lets address your points.

1) Your complaining on other places once the convention is over with. Mistake number 1. If you have a complaint, walk into the rover office and speak with a department head. Complaints after the fact have significantly less weight than those that are levied during the event. It's along the lines of, "If I cared enough I would go complain about it now rather than later."

2) The weapons are bound to you or your costume, but this is not always the case depending on the weapon. If you haven't noticed, most large weapons are peace bonded as "staves" rather than swords or other weapon classifications. You see the heavy weapons guy with his gun? Did we tie that thing to him? No, we use common sense, I would ask you do the same when designing and constructing your weapons/costumes.

3) The contradiction lies in the way words are assembled and interpreted. My intent is simply to state that weapons are bound to your costume but in certain circumstances, they may be bound to say an arm, leg, etc. We draw a line in terms of the personal body and the costume.

4) We make the rules in accordance with SJCC, City of San Jose, and the County of Santa Clara guidelines and policies as well as YEARS of experience to clarify the rules, regulations, and things we felt should be made into rules. We take into consideration the level of complexity in cosplays and cosplayers, however, I do not want a guy carrying an assault rifle replica waving it around on the sidewalk and getting the SWAT team called on you. We make GENERAL rules BECAUSE of the fact that over 15,000 people attend our event, with various ranges of cosplayers (from new ones, to experienced ones), we cannot make exceptions for a certain demographic which potentially may endanger another demographic within the convention.

5) We do NOT make up whatever rules we want. There is careful consideration of the law, liability, and safety reasons behind the rules. We have a lawyer on retainer who reviews the weapons policy each time it changes.

6) Rovers have mandatory training and adhere to a stricter code of conduct than most other staff. I do not tolerate abusive behavior on my staff. If you have a complaint, walk into a rovers office and ask to speak with a department head.

7) The Spartans to my knowledge should have been fine. All rovers were given specific instructions to leave them alone as it did not violate our convention dress code/policies. If they were told to put on pants, it may have been a misinformed staffer not within the Operations department. If this happens in the future, please take the name/badge ID of the staffer in question, and lodge a complaint with CONOPS or the Rovers office.

Overall, for a convention this size, it is very hard for us to make up these rules to apply to everyone. Someone obviously is going to be unhappy, this is just the nature of things. You may be careful with a large sword or keyblade, but a 14 y/o male showing off to his friends may start swinging the weapons around and hurts someone? I'm sorry you feel that the rules are unfair to you, but for some random person walking by, the rules are set for their safety.

If you would like, I can meet with you at con and we can discuss weapons policy with a SJPD Officer. They show GREAT restraint during our convention, as many of the weapons at con are illegal or a felony to even posses without a license.

Rovers are fans/cosplayers just like you. Many of them will slightly bend the rules/grudgingly peace bond a weapon that is a little iffy because they realize the amount of work and other things that go on. Rules are rules, if you have a lenient rover peace bind your equipment, great. If you have a more stricter enforcer, tough luck. The rules are in place, we provide the training, but the enforcement is up to the discretion of those who are enforcing the policies. A lot of things in life are open to interpretation.

[Yukari Kaiba]

Rovers are fans/cosplayers just like you. Many of them will slightly bend the rules/grudgingly peace bond a weapon that is a little iffy because they realize the amount of work and other things that go on. Rules are rules, if you have a lenient rover peace bind your equipment, great. If you have a more stricter enforcer, tough luck. The rules are in place, we provide the training, but the enforcement is up to the discretion of those who are enforcing the policies. A lot of things in life are open to interpretation.

but isn't the point of training people under the same guidelines is to make sure ALL of the rovers judge props equally according to the same standards? In my opinion I honestly don't think thats very professional view on the matter at all, especially with the last statement. If you have a job where working according to a set of rules is crucial and you decide to "interpret" things yourself, you end up getting fired. I work in the food service industry where working to strict guidelines is mandatory, and if we're not up to snuff then you're cut loose. I don't know if rovers get paid (they are a volunteer position, I believe), but they're still working staff and to say that though they're all trained with the same material and then whatever they do is up to their discretion I find a bit irresponsible.

[BumbleB]

We aren't asking to bring anything that could cause danger to anyone attending Fanime. All we want is to pose for a picture and not have a hassle in the restroom because our costume is acting up.
I would also like to point some things out.(these are from last year @ Fanime)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenzee/2537049982/
Grimmjow had his sword out, it wasn't attached to him
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenzee/2531271285/
Now he's with a little kid! :o
http://www.flickr.com/photos/honeypoo/2519755669/
If Ichigo gets to have his GIANT Zanpaktou out we should all get to, and Rukia is pulling out sode no shirayuki from her obi, I'm going as Rukia and my katana is just like that but it's wood. (I thought they said the rules had always been enforced)
[this next one is from 2007]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8733946@N05/535399738/
Ulquiorra katana= shiny? Is that live steel. 2007, this is the year Yukari went as Byakuya and had to have her peace bond her sword to her costume. Ichigo AND Ulquiorra's katana's are both out.
You said you enforced the rules.

[Steve.Young]

And how will we know if they were irresponsible if none of the managers hear about it? You give them the power to be irresponsible.

I work in business. In business, things are up for interpretation, contracts are always in dispute, legal application of laws into business operations is always a contradiction. None of the rovers are paid, they volunteer their time. You provide the training, a level of expectation, but interpretation of these specific types of rules is always a factor. Food service and weapons policy are two things that cannot be compared together. You may classify a bokken as a sword while someone else may classify it as an accessory, thus interpretation again is heavily up to those enforcing it. They are also human beings who make mistakes or bend the rules slightly. Professional view has nothing to do with this. This is a simple statement of our convention rules and applications in the way that those who put on the show in CONJUNCTION with local law enforcement and the facilities (SJ Convention Center) mandates. SJPD, especially during con, leaves a WIDE RANGE OF INTERPRETATION in the application of weapons in public domain. Most of the time, they look the other way.

Now, if you want, I can talk to SJPD about being entirely by the book and we will see if you enjoy being harassed by police officers about your weapons constantly. We enjoy a great deal of freedoms because we have compromised a great deal. This is my final say on this particular issue in this thread. If you have additional comments, questions, complaints send me a private message and I can arrange a meeting with some SJPD officers and myself and we'll explain why we do things the way we do.

[Steve.Young]

We aren't asking to bring anything that could cause danger to anyone attending Fanime. All we want is to pose for a picture and not have a hassle in the restroom because our costume is acting up.
I would also like to point some things out.(these are from last year @ Fanime)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenzee/2537049982/
Grimmjow had his sword out, it wasn't attached to him
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenzee/2531271285/
Now he's with a little kid! :o
http://www.flickr.com/photos/honeypoo/2519755669/
If Ichigo gets to have his GIANT Zanpaktou out we should all get to, and Rukia is pulling out sode no shirayuki from her obi, I'm going as Rukia and my katana is just like that but it's wood. (I thought they said the rules had always been enforced)
[this next one is from 2007]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8733946@N05/535399738/
Ulquiorra katana= shiny? Is that live steel. 2007, this is the year Yukari went as Byakuya and had to have her peace bond her sword to her costume. Ichigo AND Ulquiorra's katana's are both out.
You said you enforced the rules.

Read my previous posts. The giant zanpaktou is too large to be peace bonded to his bodies, thus it is considered a staff. He carries it like one. My buddy does that cosplay all the time with a 6 foot zanpaktou.

Grimjaw's sword also has no visible peace bond on it, thus I cannot say we have checked the weapons. I don't see what the little kid has to do with anything.

Ulquiorra Katana - I don't see a peace bond on it, so I have no way of knowing whether or not he was caught or had his weapon checked.

We enforce the rules, but we can't look at every single person at con and ask them to hold out their weapons constantly to see if its peace bonded. We would get accused of harrassing people. Things slip through, if you would like to help enforce the rules, you can PM me to join Rovers staff.