Is Fanime worth going to anymore?

[Steve.Young]

That my dear, was nothing more than "passing the buck" type of response.

Passing the buck is the act of attributing one's own responsibility to someone else.  Her limited function on this forum has been made clear.  This wasn't her responsibility.

I think my post and Sumari's got the idea across, I seriously don't want this to turn into a finger pointing match from here on out. Please remain on topic.

p.s. I am a he, not a she.

Hah!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll bring this up at our post-con meetings.

[citrus]

Yeah... so I have to ask. What the heck took you moderators or staff so long to notice the discussions we've been having in the forums for quite sometime now? We complain and complain, non-stop but it wasn't until 1 month close to the con you guys start actually communicating with us and actually taking action. And it's not just on the forums are people complaining. It's on almost all of your guy's social media and I'm pretty sure there are people spamming you with complaints with e-mails as well.

You guys claim that all of you are working hard to improve the con. However a lot of us say the same thing. You either provide a generic answer or just ignore our voice's and concern's all the time. Okay so staff rotates and the head changes as well? If that's the case here's something you can do. DON'T change or rotate staff if possible and if someone as important as the head HAVE to switch then find a head that's popular with the attendees or much beloved. They may have different ways of running the convention but that doesn't mean they should discard everything of what the previous head that's done which has made the con successful. I will continue to say and constantly reiterate. 2011 was the last year fanimecon was good and since then everything has fallen downhill. It's not just the guests but everything about the convention in general.  Do you guys actually acknowledge our voice? Judging by the the lackluster communication the past months I highly doubt it.

I know you guys read the forums. And if you actually cared you would have resolved our complaints a long time ago. Not only that, it actually feels like you guys try to suppress our feedback one time or not hand us anything to allow our complaints be heard. In the year 2013 a online feedback form was created and distributed. Many people jumped on the bandwagon and filled out the form. You guys have distributed the feedback form on facebook but then a month or two later it was removed from facebook which gives off the impression you guy's can't handle criticism or feedback and the only way for people to actually access it was the official website. It's as if you wanted the least amount of people to find the online form. As far as I'm aware I was never given a survey or fillout form on how the convention was in 2014. I don't even think there was an online feedback form for 2014. What makes you think we can actually trust you'll finally be taking action for once. ( I am so expecting this reply to totally ignored)

[Mizuki]

Yeah... so I have to ask. What the heck took you moderators or staff so long to notice the discussions we've been having in the forums for quite sometime now? We complain and complain, non-stop but it wasn't until 1 month close to the con you guys start actually communicating with us and actually taking action. And it's not just on the forums are people complaining. It's on almost all of your guy's social media and I'm pretty sure there are people spamming you with complaints with e-mails as well.

You guys claim that all of you are working hard to improve the con. However a lot of us say the same thing. You either provide a generic answer or just ignore our voice's and concern's all the time. Okay so staff rotates and the head changes as well? If that's the case here's something you can do. DON'T change or rotate staff if possible and if someone as important as the head HAVE to switch then find a head that's popular with the attendees or much beloved. They may have different ways of running the convention but that doesn't mean they should discard everything of what the previous head that's done which has made the con successful. I will continue to say and constantly reiterate. 2011 was the last year fanimecon was good and since then everything has fallen downhill. It's not just the guests but everything about the convention in general.  Do you guys actually acknowledge our voice? Judging by the the lackluster communication the past months I highly doubt it.

I know you guys read the forums. And if you actually cared you would have resolved our complaints a long time ago. Not only that, it actually feels like you guys try to suppress our feedback one time or not hand us anything to allow our complaints be heard. In the year 2013 a online feedback form was created and distributed. Many people jumped on the bandwagon and filled out the form. You guys have distributed the feedback form on facebook but then a month or two later it was removed from facebook which gives off the impression you guy's can't handle criticism or feedback and the only way for people to actually access it was the official website. It's as if you wanted the least amount of people to find the online form. As far as I'm aware I was never given a survey or fillout form on how the convention was in 2014. I don't even think there was an online feedback form for 2014. What makes you think we can actually trust you'll finally be taking action for once. ( I am so expecting this reply to totally ignored)

Hi citrus,

This is beyond *my* scope realistically. I am a moderator to the forums in a handful of sections, I am in no way a representative to FanimeCon as a whole. All I can do myself is just ask for a way for people to give feedback that will be heard. I know a handful of you are frustrated with the convention and how some things are handled. Moderators =/= Staff. I was actually a moderator on the forums before I was staff! (and I've only staffed Maid Cafe). In the scheme of things, on the forums I have as much as a voice as everyone in this thread who has complaints. You have to remember, this is *NOT* a thread the right people will see, so being aggressive to me is unfair, I personally can only do so much, but you have my word that I will try my damnedest to have your guys' voice heard.

[citrus]

Well I do have to apologize if I may seem a bit aggressive towards but there is a reason why I'm acting like the way I am. Aside moderating certain sections of the forums, If you do read the forums and the threads and replies I make specifically, you'll notice I tend to make very aggressive posts and usually badmouth the staff and convention but not in ways that you wouldn't take me serious.

Usually, when a convention is going really bad many people will point the fingers at the staff for doing a bad job. And while this may not apply to all departments it applies to the big cheese who run the strings of the convention. I have complained constantly on social media and barely get any response or answers from the staff who run it. This includes the staff and moderators of the forums. What happens when I do? We get no answers and we are always constantly ignored. I have become very angry and aggressive for being ignored for so long that I don't trust the staff to get anything done because of it.

So in order to get any attention about the problems. being aggressive and ratting out the staff was the only way I could think of would get best way. The last staff member that I recall that tried to take action I haven't heard from him since then. Which I felt he wasn't trying hard enough or being genuine which only displaces my trust for the staff even more. It wasn't until now that you decided to actually offer to take action and have our voices be heard. So far you haven't ignore me like 95% of all the moderator or other staff have done and you actually addressed me head on. You also shown genuine care that you are going to try your best in which others have given the impression they won't.

So for now I'm going take your word and trust you. I expect and hope you won't let me down

[Glitch]

I think it's a problem with young people who just haven't been to enough concerts, especially Japanese ones, and part of that is also probably the cons' fault for not placing enough emphasis on music guests and also educating the attendees.

My group of con friends are generally older (probably 25-40s+) and they're also fairly introverted but nobody there has any issue with standing.  Hell, some of us even have old injuries and we will work through the pain if possible to keep jumping and standing during the concert.  But everyone in the group are veteran congoers who attend cons *specifically* for music guests, and a large number of them also make trips to Japan to attend lives there as well.

Actually since I'm on a rant, American con "dance" scenes are also pretty dismal IMO.  If a dance gets described at any point in time as a "rave" they've already failed.

Here is what anime music events at music clubs are like in Japan.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/61017139 - Club Mogra (very famous, if any of you watched the anime Saekano, the characters actually go here in one of the episodes!)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/60731753 - Sukimono

Even outside Japan, at Anime Festival Asia, they know what's up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBcn8w9uVM - AFA Indonesia '13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV7SE9TmCeo - AFA Singapore '14

They get it over at Mexico too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjFxAsr1Kf0

Notice in all cases the very clear anime/vocaloid music with generally minimal amounts of remixing.

And then here's what happens in USA cons...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WOTq5-s9y8 - Fanime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gRkuXceQPY - Otakon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgaokBV9B2Q - Anime Expo

That AX video is especially telling of why I have such a dim view of the con culture here.

There really is nothing in the cons here that really shows people this aspect of the culture.  And I only got into it myself by luck from seeing people who knew this aspect, and continuing to keep in touch with them over the years.

It should be pointed out that dances and concerts are two different things. A concert at a con usually invovles a guest a lot of people want to see, and therefore people will be a little be more active than when seeing a dj.

Such as when Momoi was here at fanime. When she jumps on stage in this vid, you can see things go energetic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMrQ4aCRIAY

I just think posting that video of the dance at Fanime and saying that people here are slouches, is misleading.

[Erik_anderson]

Yeah... so I have to ask. What the heck took you moderators or staff so long to notice the discussions we've been having in the forums for quite sometime now? We complain and complain, non-stop but it wasn't until 1 month close to the con you guys start actually communicating with us and actually taking action. And it's not just on the forums are people complaining. It's on almost all of your guy's social media and I'm pretty sure there are people spamming you with complaints with e-mails as well

Worth pointing out Citrus, but I am staff and I was on this thread 7 days after you posted it.  While this thread activity comes in waves, but we do actually pay attention and in my case try to address some of the remarks as best I can.

[Erik_anderson]

For tax purposes Fanime, like every other convention, fair or event is organized as a corporation, so its misleading to imply that this is the same as a for profit corporation like AX, ComicCon or Wizard.  What 'for fans by fans' means is that we volunteer our time and while some perks are rewarded generally we spend far more time and money then the benefit.  Personally I spent around $3000 last year of my own funds to host my event.

The irony. While Fanime is organized as a corporation, 2 of the 3 you mentioned (AX and Comic-Con) are non-profits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime_Expo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Comic-Con_International

Well first off Wikipedia is a terrible source for concrete facts.  It is literally anti-expert. 

Secondly, you are aware that a non-profit is a type of corporation that a company is literally incorporated as a 501.c(3) "charity" under the corporate tax code? Here is an interesting read on the contraversy around their filing status:

But the "nonprofit educational corporation promoting comics and related popular art forms," as Comic-Con describes itself, said it had $9,999,107 cash on its books at the end of the 2010 reporting period.

http://patch.com/california/lamesa/comic-conwith-net-assets-of-7-millionpays-city-no-bus68a5dfd212

So where is most of that money spent? The biggest expense is the one that impacts attendees most – security, at a whopping $1.3 million. Second is the salaries for the 35 people CCI employed that year, at just over $1.2 million. And to rent the convention space? A cool $424k. Since these specific program expenses were not separated by con, we don't know how much of this actually went toward SDCC, but by law of ratios it is likely the majority.

http://sdccblog.com/2013/02/comic-con-internationals-tax-documents-reveal-organizations-assets-cost-of-sdcc/

Employees who had ties with corporate officers were listed as Maija Gates, daughter of executive director ($63,412); Colleen O'Connell, wife of treasurer ($61,770); and Eddie Ibrahim, former board member ($61,303).

Download a copy of the 990 filing at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/documents/2011/jul/08/comic-con-09-990/

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2011/jul/08/comic-con-grossed-more-than-9-million-in-fy-09-lat/#

This is where I point out that I do this for free, well actually I pay about $3,000 a year to work the convention.

Finally let me point out that Anime Expo is not a non-profit charity its a 503c(6) corporation - the so called Business Leagues exemption. You will also note that it paid $542.384.00 in salary to its employees in 2010.

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/943/943156848/943156848_201012_990O.pdf

Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code provides for the exemption of business leagues, chambers of commerce, real estate boards, boards of trade and professional football leagues, which are not organized for profit and no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.
A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business ...

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Other-Non-Profits/Business-Leagues

Now if you want to compare actual charities to ComicCon its worth noting that the United Way, the largest charity in the US only gets $4.2 million a year, that's less then half of what ComicCon gets.  Then again the NFL which is in the same tax section as Anime Expo gets $9.5 billion in revenue per year.

What does this and anything else about conventions finances have to do with which convention you are going to attend?  likely nothing.

[Dracil]

I think it's a problem with young people who just haven't been to enough concerts, especially Japanese ones, and part of that is also probably the cons' fault for not placing enough emphasis on music guests and also educating the attendees.

My group of con friends are generally older (probably 25-40s+) and they're also fairly introverted but nobody there has any issue with standing.  Hell, some of us even have old injuries and we will work through the pain if possible to keep jumping and standing during the concert.  But everyone in the group are veteran congoers who attend cons *specifically* for music guests, and a large number of them also make trips to Japan to attend lives there as well.

Actually since I'm on a rant, American con "dance" scenes are also pretty dismal IMO.  If a dance gets described at any point in time as a "rave" they've already failed.

Here is what anime music events at music clubs are like in Japan.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/61017139 - Club Mogra (very famous, if any of you watched the anime Saekano, the characters actually go here in one of the episodes!)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/60731753 - Sukimono

Even outside Japan, at Anime Festival Asia, they know what's up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBcn8w9uVM - AFA Indonesia '13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV7SE9TmCeo - AFA Singapore '14

They get it over at Mexico too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjFxAsr1Kf0

Notice in all cases the very clear anime/vocaloid music with generally minimal amounts of remixing.

And then here's what happens in USA cons...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WOTq5-s9y8 - Fanime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gRkuXceQPY - Otakon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgaokBV9B2Q - Anime Expo

That AX video is especially telling of why I have such a dim view of the con culture here.

There really is nothing in the cons here that really shows people this aspect of the culture.  And I only got into it myself by luck from seeing people who knew this aspect, and continuing to keep in touch with them over the years.

It should be pointed out that dances and concerts are two different things. A concert at a con usually invovles a guest a lot of people want to see, and therefore people will be a little be more active than when seeing a dj.

Such as when Momoi was here at fanime. When she jumps on stage in this vid, you can see things go energetic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMrQ4aCRIAY

I just think posting that video of the dance at Fanime and saying that people here are slouches, is misleading.

None of the videos I posted are of concerts.  It's an issue with American cons, not just Fanime.

[citrus]

Soo... everything in the con is still being announced as if they're just hamstringing things together at the last minute and offical announcements about the music guests STILL haven't been announced.

So this brings back to the name of the thread I created.  Fanime worth going to anymore? My impression so far? NOPE!

You staff mind answering why it's taking so long to finalize everything when that should have been taken care a long time ago? Or shall I expect silence?

[gsp113]

You know you should really give the staff a break. Fanime has always been hurry up and wait in my experience with it. I usually attend the con however the timeline of guest announcements and the things I'm doing now a days may make that hard.

This is the problem with going to a con mainly for a musical guest. Structurally Fanime is still ok, Rookiez, and 7!! we're awesome year before last. HMK was amazing last year but I have to agree on the Raj issue, he's not a very strong vocalist annnnnnnnnnnnd he butchered Cha La Head Cha La. Anyways it's what 18 days til the con and there's still no announcement on the musicfest guest. Unfortunately for me that means I'm probably gonna spend the extra money and use the ticket gifted to me for Scandal. I'd rather not drive down below but the original poster does have a point, I sit here and question if its worth the money I will spend on a hotel etc.

[ewu]

You staff mind answering why it's taking so long to finalize everything when that should have been taken care a long time ago? Or shall I expect silence?

So things (guest, events, programming) are getting announced as soon as we can. However, it is a complex and sensitive process and the proper steps must be taken. Keep in mind that sometimes we are also doing this in both English and Japanese.

We have heard your feedback and I even replied to your post here with respect to guests:

So we actually have a database of all the requests in this thread and this is not a blind thread. Please keep the suggestions flowing.

As for booking earlier, we are working hard on moving up the timeline. While its hard to show you progress, our acquisitions timeline is moving up. However, it takes time to move it up and it takes time for other convention resources like budgeting to ramp up to support the timeline change.

We are working to improve and love to hear your continued feedback.

Thanks:)

[otakuya]

I hate to bring up this thread again, but I want to make a point.

What's the difference of the badge vs no badge? Many of the events at Fanime does not require a badge, such as cosplay gatherings, Stage 0, and outside atmosphere. Anyone can walk around the convention center, hotels, and anywhere outside without a badge and still have the same enjoyment of the convention without paying $60+ for a badge.

I'm always going to pre-register for future Fanimes because I am supporting this event that I grew up with, but I want to feel like that I got all of my registration money worth and not have the same experience if I didn't register.

[cutiebunny]

It's the same with most anime conventions; Areas outside the convention center, and often inside the convention center, are free and open to the public.  If you want access to the dealer hall, artist alley, game rooms, autographs, concerts and panels, you have to buy a badge.

I'm sure that there are many people at conventions across the country that solely attend either to cosplay or to take pictures of cosplayers do so without buying a badge.  Short of hiring staff to patrol these areas and remove those without a badge, I'm not sure how you can actively control this...especially when your convention booklet states that sitting at Stage 0 doesn't require a badge.

[KyraEnsui]

 :-\

[otakuya]

For me, it's not about patrolling and controlling badges, but having the badge worth something. The most I've seen of badge patrol are for dealers room and gaming room, both of which additional money is needed for purchases.

I get that it's a public place, but much of what Fanime has to offer does not require a badge. If all you do is stay outside for cosplayers, or even watch everything on Stage Zero, you kinda wasted your reg money. Unless the paid sections of Fanime blows everything out of the water of awesomeness, I don't want to feel gypped that most things were free. One thing that may help is to have the arcades on Free Play apart from the prize catchers.

[InsaneDavid]

This will also go in my feedback thread post when I write that in a couple days -

Stage Zero should do more to promote the convention, which it already does to an extent.  I would like to see more promotion outside of the Opening Ceremonies and whatnot.  For instance during programming changes mention any tournaments that may be upcoming in Gaming.  Use that free soapbox to sell the convention to those who may be just wandering through to see what all the crowds and people in costume are about.  Also, turn the bass and gain down!  It was WAY to difficult to understand most of what was being broadcast during the day at Stage Zero this year due to the audio mix being terrible.  It's like what - 80 seats?  Should be enough volume to get over the general convention center chatter and that's it, not enough to blare down to gatherings a floor below at The Hub.  TL;DR - Stage Zero should absolutely be free and should have a secondary purpose to push badges for those simply milling about.

I've heard conflicting things about badge checks at the video rooms during general programming.  If they are unbadged then that is completely asinine both for the safety of those in the video rooms and for the AV equipment on lease being used in them.  "Hey, dark room, come on in - no restriction, no easy grounds for removal and ban."  Not to mention it's another thing that doesn't have to be paid for someone to utilize.

It's worth it to me because I love the atmosphere of the convention - it's the show that got me back into conventions outright.  Dealer's Hall, Artist Alley, an occasional panel, Swap Meet (should go back to being fully badged again, no need to make Day Zero concessions anymore now that registration has been fixed) Gaming and video rooms are all something I enjoy and happily pay the modest fee to utilize.