Visual Kei: More Than Music

[Pengin-san]

So there is a J-rock panel already, but I think visual kei should have it's own panel.  Now I'm not talking about your typical visual kei bands that everyone has heard of like Malice Mizer.  I personally believe that I can go much deeper as I've been listening to visual kei for a while, and I listen to a wide array of bands.  However, that sounds really cocky, so it makes me feel terribly awkward.  Anyway, I think Fanime could really use a genuine visual kei panel that will apply to old fans and new or curious listeners.

I've had this idea for years, but I just didn't know how to go about it.  Plus, I still don't know if you guys would really be interested.  So would any of you be interested in attending a visual kei panel?

For those who don't know what visual kei is, here's a good article.

[Kazuko]

:T I dont know, Visual kei has been dead since the late 90's early 2000's. There isnt really much to cover since its a subsection of jrock hence why people who host jrock pannels put it as a joint with the other categories of jrock, Its just costumes and visual effects in their PV's to bring the song to life or in their lives as well. Visual style now a days look the same to me and usually the bands sound the same or sound pretty bad. Former Visual artist now wear regular clothes or tone it down cause as people get older it just seems a bit rediculous

[Pengin-san]

That's no necessarily true.  Bands like jealKB or Versailles are relatively new and they still dress up.  Plus, there's more to visual-kei than just the outfits.  Yes, that is a major part, but there is a distinct style and sound that most visual-kei bands follow.  There are still plenty of fans of visual-kei, they just might not be around these parts.  Besides, just because visual-kei is reportedly titled "dead" doesn't mean there are no fans.  I know hundreds of fans of Nirvana, and Kurt has been dead since '94.  I see what you're getting at, as I hear that a lot, but I'm wondering if there are people out there who don't follow only what's most popular at the moment.  It's a genre you either love or hate, so this would purely be for fans to come and remember or become turned on to the genre.  Not for people to come in and nag about how much they don't like it.

But, if it truly isn't popular over here, then so be it.  This is exactly why I asked first :3.  I'll wait for more responses.

[Kazuko]

I know that Versailes dresses since they have the whole romance/rococo element to them that alot of fans miss from Lareine. The US has been major fans of Visual kei stars such as Dir en grey before they toned down their style, Moi Dix Mois (which from what I hear mana wont be making another us visit sometime soon). While it is dead people still listen to it and what not :T theres a gap sometimes of thoes who have listened to it for a long time and the younger kids who recentally got into it and dont know squat. Jrock has a HUGE elitst group mainly interms of US fans with visual kei from what I have seen/heard

Im not saying people arent going to nag but there isnt much to cover in recent cases just aside from bands who are fresh unless you want to do ALL of it and go way back to 79 or early 80s then cover from there on its up to you.

[Nyxyin]

I don't know much about visual kei, and I'd be interested in attending a panel, even if it's considered to be dead.  Even assuming it's considered dead now, I'd be interested in how visual kei inspired other groups and what traces of it can be seen in more popular or more modern groups.  I'd also be interested in how visual kei influenced or were influenced by various anime, manga, or games.

The topic sounds interesting, but I do have certain priorities.  If the visual kei panel happens at the same time as a panel given by a guest that hasn't been to Fanime before, I'll go to the guest panel instead.  Sorry...  ^_^;

[Pengin-san]

Kazuko - I see I see.  I wasn't planning on covering things, like introducing bands, but actually this made me think about what I would actually do.  I completely agree with you, though.  The amount of people listening to Naitomea only because they did the opening and closing of Death Note is just depressing.  I was hoping maybe this panel would attract the old fans, or even just the real fans.  I'm not too old myself, so I can't really talk about the "older" fans, you know?  

I think maybe it would be interesting to introduce bands that people have over-looked because they're old.  Because from my experience, it's hard to meet a fan of BOOWY or even BUCK-TICK.  Perhaps this is just my attempt to have a social gathering of classic visual-kei fans XD!  I didn't mean to come off as rude, if I did.

Nyxyin - Haha, I would go to the guest panel too, don't worry XD!  I'm glad you would be interested though!

[PyronIkari]

I followed Visual-kei up until... about '98. I stopped, about the same time Japan did.

Some points of interest.

Visual-kei was never popular. Never. It had a small following but it was incredibly small. As shown by the record sales and oricon rankings over the past 3 decades. Even within itself, Visual-kei's popularity has dropped drastically in the past ten years. For every 5 bands there were in the 90s... there's at best one band now. None of which have any real popularity, just a small following.

Visual-kei is basically Japanese for "Glam rock". It came to Japan via American and Europeon bands of the late 70's and early 80's. Much like most things culturally, Japan jumped on the boat 10 years too late.

And no, visual-kei IS about the way they dress and act. That's the definition of it. For the Japanese, it was a visual aspect of music, and honestly... that's what most visual-kei groups did. They focused so much on the visual, and pretty much didn't care about the music, which explains why most bands suck so bad musically. We had this discussion in another thread, and I forget about what. Oh wait no, it was for Otakon's board I think, I don't remember, it happens often.

Glay is technically the only extremely successful visual-kei band to come outta Japan. There were other successful ones, but Glay was the only one that actually topped charts, had huge record sales, and consistently showed popularity.

L'arc gave up their Visual-Kei act extremely early, and they never came close to Glay's popularity. Even though L'arc is rather well known, and they do well, they aren't as popular as most people think they are.

Here's the really fun one. X-Japan/X. Despite them having a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge cult following, and most people think they are the biggest band ever out of Japan... they aren't. Their records sold well, but no where near record breaking, or even chart topping. They sold well for their time... Okay in comparison to a band some of you may be able to reflect with. They were no where near M.C. Hammer, Paula Abdul, Nirvana... at best they're at "Bare Naked Ladies" status in terms of sales and actual popularity. It's just that their fans are so incredibly vocal and outspoken, that it seems that they're bigger than they were. 

[Pengin-san]

I see your point, and I'm already aware of unpopularity of visual-kei in Japan.  I wouldn't feel confident with holding a panel about the genre if I myself knew nothing of the history.  However, like I said before, that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a fan base.  I just want to know if it goes beyond Malice Mizer, or if there are people at Fanime that genuinely appreciate the music.  Guess I shouldn't expect that from an anime convention, huh?

[Jun-Watarase]

I see your point, and I'm already aware of unpopularity of visual-kei in Japan.  I wouldn't feel confident with holding a panel about the genre if I myself knew nothing of the history.  However, like I said before, that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a fan base.  I just want to know if it goes beyond Malice Mizer, or if there are people at Fanime that genuinely appreciate the music.  Guess I shouldn't expect that from an anime convention, huh?

There is a fanbase in the con-scene. No one is trying to discourage Fanime having a Visual-kei panel, as it's relevant to the interests of a good chunk of attendees, however, it is discouraged for people to host a panel about a subject they're not knowledgeable of, unless it's a loosely-organized discussion panel.

[ewu]

Panels regularly checks this forum, so we'll see what comes of it:)

[Pengin-san]

I see your point, and I'm already aware of unpopularity of visual-kei in Japan.  I wouldn't feel confident with holding a panel about the genre if I myself knew nothing of the history.  However, like I said before, that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a fan base.  I just want to know if it goes beyond Malice Mizer, or if there are people at Fanime that genuinely appreciate the music.  Guess I shouldn't expect that from an anime convention, huh?

There is a fanbase in the con-scene. No one is trying to discourage Fanime having a Visual-kei panel, as it's relevant to the interests of a good chunk of attendees, however, it is discouraged for people to host a panel about a subject they're not knowledgeable of, unless it's a loosely-organized discussion panel.

Hence why I am confident of holding it.  It's a little redundant to say don't talk about something you don't know about.

[Kazuko]

how is it? I mean you cant just site wikipedia or other sites and make a panel awesome. Alot of sites are fan based from what I noticed most people usually have their information wrong, Fansites usually steal from one another as well. Its hard to find a decent fansite that isnt covered in "OMG HYDE HAVE MY BABIEZ PLZ" kinda crap though there are some that actually do hold true facts and some even translate the groups blogs. or even magazines to cover interviews and such. I have done presentations on Japanese rock but when I cover visual kei there isnt much to talk about to be honest like I said thats why Jrock panels usually are just one panel. Though I think Oshare Kei branched off visual kei in terms of clothing styles since its a bit more punky and not so flamboyant

I could suggest Jrock Ink since it mentions a few visual kei artist such as psycho le cemu but it doesnt go into much detail and should be used as a suppliment and not a huge factor.

Some panels are run well given months of time and reserch to put everything together and have a solid structure. Plus also to be able to answer Q&A's that people have that you didnt explain.

[Jun-Watarase]

I see your point, and I'm already aware of unpopularity of visual-kei in Japan.  I wouldn't feel confident with holding a panel about the genre if I myself knew nothing of the history.  However, like I said before, that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a fan base.  I just want to know if it goes beyond Malice Mizer, or if there are people at Fanime that genuinely appreciate the music.  Guess I shouldn't expect that from an anime convention, huh?

There is a fanbase in the con-scene. No one is trying to discourage Fanime having a Visual-kei panel, as it's relevant to the interests of a good chunk of attendees, however, it is discouraged for people to host a panel about a subject they're not knowledgeable of, unless it's a loosely-organized discussion panel.

Hence why I am confident of holding it.  It's a little redundant to say don't talk about something you don't know about.

You're not the first to suggest hosting a visual-kei panel, trust me. A lot of people believe they're knowledgeable as fans, so I'm hoping that you're right. Visual-kei, despite not ever being very big, had a significant impact on the American fanbase. If you do, I hope it goes well, but I don't advocate spreading /wrong/ information, so it's best to make sure you know what you're doing. Perhaps you could discuss a few subjects of the matter on this thread, and maybe people on the forum could provide you with more information. It ISN'T redundant to stress this point, because a lot of panelists do this-- spread misinformation. Good luck, nonetheless.

You could also mention what a lot of Visual-kei artists are doing now. Most other bands have died, but a good handful has changed their look and attitude. I recently keep seeing a commercial with SID playing on it, and their look has overall really toned down, and they look more attractive as a band overall. Oshare-kei, despite only being a branch, I feel is very different from the rest of Visual-kei in terms of, of course, look, sound, and attitude. There are a good amount of oshare-kei fans in California, especially, of upbeat Antic Cafe, and dark Plastic Tree, and etc. I feel that most other visual-kei bands' music can only be listened to with the video accompanying it. Visual-kei... REALLY isn't about the music itself, it's about "visuals marrying melody", hence the "visual", and sometimes even fashion subcultures. Talk about some bands, show a couple of aesthetically-pleasing videos, the fans, and talk about huge events and impacts on Visual-kei history. You only have about maybe an hour or so, so it's just enough to cover a short introduction to it.

Jrock Ink doesn't have enough information on everything, but does provide a good list of famous and semi well-known bands for those who aren't exposed to them.

[Pengin-san]

Damn, I lost my entire post!  I worked so hard trying to explain everything too!

I had no idea people actually went into panels, completely unaware and misinformed on what they were talking about.  No sarcasm, I find that pretty ridiculous :/.

I do happen to own Jrock, Ink., and I was actually planning to recommend it if I hold the panel.  The thing is, the book focuses more on the big movers and shakers of Japanese music, not necessarily just visual-kei.  Still, nevertheless, it is quite a nice book.

I would really like to talk to you through PM, Jun.  I had a whole post planned out for you, but... it's gone now.  So if you don't mind, I think we should continue this through PM, as I really like your input.

[Kava]

*waves at all* I think it would be interesting to try this panel out at Fanime at least once. We haven't had a panel on Visual Kei before, to my knowledge. We had a lot of Jrock panels last year, in the wake of Antic Cafe coming to the convention, but none that focused specifically on this ... genre? (^^;; Not sure if that's the right word, sorry.)

In any case, I encourage you to apply for a panel when those forms go up...

I agree that there are often many fans still existing for something that isn't currently the 'in' or 'popular and trendy' thing to do. I can think of countless anime shows that are 'dead' in the sense that they no longer air, etc, but still have a huge fanbase.

I'm uncertain how many fans of Visual Kei we have in our regular attendees at Fanime, but I think it would be interesting to find out.

I'm sorry the panel forms aren't up... I need to go uh... be a pest about that. >>;;

-Kava (Rena)

[Pengin-san]

I don't mean to be redundant, but I need to ask this question again.  In all honesty, do you think you or other people would be interested in this panel?  I'd like to sign up sooner rather than later, so it's crucial that I get this information.  The last thing I want is to put in a lot of work just to find out that only 3 people will come.  Not to mention, that's a little embarrassing.

[Kava]

In all honesty, I don't think there's a way to know for sure.

If you want more assurance that people might attend, you may want to wait until the artists for this year's music fest are announced. If we end up having another Visual Kei band at Fanime this year, then there will likely be more people attending who are interested specifically in that genre of music.

Traditionally, I believe that more FanimeCon attendees are interested in J-pop than in any kind of J-rock. However, there are definitely some who enjoy J-rock, and some who enjoy Vis-K.

That's the best answer I can give you. If we'd had panels on this previously, I'd be able to tell you what kind of attendance they'd had. Since we haven't had a panel that focused specifically on this before, I have no data to share.

-Rena

[bluechokobo]

Traditionally, I believe that more FanimeCon attendees are interested in J-pop than in any kind of J-rock. However, there are definitely some who enjoy J-rock, and some who enjoy Vis-K.

When we do the Jpop and Jrock panels at different cons usually the Jrock panel gets more of a crowd but just recently the Jpop panel at Phoenix Comic Con (which has a large anime crowd) more poeple showed up for Jpop.

I believe a lot of things can influence the size of the crowd such as which day and time of day the panel is held.  An example would be holding a Jrock panel first thing on Friday would get less people then say Saturday at 5pm.  For the most part these music panels are not usually influenced by major events like AMV contest, Masq and guest panels so that helps mainintain a decent sized crowd. 

I also think holding a couple different Jrock/Jpop panels can be a good thing because tastes differ and fans old and new can hopefully get something new out of each.

[Pengin-san]

@Kava :: I would, it's just that the more I wait, the less likely I have to get a good time.  And like bluechokobo said, the time can really make or break a panel.  We'll see, but I appreciate your input thus far :3.

@bluechokobo :: You run the Panadacubed panels, right?  I hear that your panels usually go over very well.  I will take all of that into consideration, as I'm seriously tempted to just go for it.

[bluechokobo]

@Kava :: I would, it's just that the more I wait, the less likely I have to get a good time.  And like bluechokobo said, the time can really make or break a panel.  We'll see, but I appreciate your input thus far :3.

@bluechokobo :: You run the Panadacubed panels, right?  I hear that your panels usually go over very well.  I will take all of that into consideration, as I'm seriously tempted to just go for it.

yep that is me. 
That's good to hear, we try our best to entertain.  If we can do a Jrock panel again this year I have a couple of interesting surprises to play.  But for the Jpop panel, we found the best and most unexpected video ever.  Well at least I hope that's what people will think.