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[kookiekween99]

So my friend Jackie and I had the idea to do a panel explaining rave culture, debunking common misconceptions (like "All ravers are drug addicts," which is totally untrue), and most importantly, explaining the significance of kandi. I noticed there were a lot of people wearing kandi this year, and the Dance is a really popular event, so I thought this might be interesting. Alternatively, if rave culture is considered too risque, we could limit it to just the significance and creation of kandi.

What are your thoughts? I'm toally open to suggestions on how we can improve this concept. Also, looking for suggestions on a better title.

EDIT: We could also teach some basic shuffling if anyone's interested. (I don't feel skilled enough to really teach anyone.)

EDIT2: Seperated into two different topics, as someone suggested. See the "What's a Bishonen" thread here: http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,16454.0.html

EDIT3: Our new idea is to focus more on kandi from an artist's perspective. See the first three posts below.

[eHash]

I suggest watching Electronic Awakening.
 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402014218/electronic-awakening

Rave culture is very broad and this panel would have a very odd place at a family-oriented con.
For the most part, older generations may simply not be open to the "rave" concept.  Having decent answers to tough questions like:
   "Even though rave atmospheres are designed to provide the best psychedelic euphoria with or without drugs; Doesn't providing the
    "ideal" location just promote the usage/abuse of drugs and sexual acts with or between minors?"

I'm not trying to be critical of your idea and I think if done correctly it wouldn't sound like a "legalize marijuana" soapbox.

[Melly]

when i read this i thought of another thing

aren't Fanime-ers not suppose to call it a "rave" anyways? since all the negative connotation related with that word?

i don't mean to rain on your parade either .A.

but yeah, i actually think this would be an interesting panel, i wouldn't mind knowing more about it since i don't know anything about it. lol

[kookiekween99]

My friend and I were discussing it, and we kinda agreed that maybe just general culture might not work because of the whole drugs thing, but we were thinking of focusing more on the kandi part. How to make it, ideas for more complex ones, the significance, trading it, etc.

[bebop]

If you want to know how to make kandi, then you should visit actual rave websites and ask them. There are other websites out there, such as PLUR LIFE that have a website especially dedicated to rave culture. Be aware if you want to proceed to this forum. You will find hardcore ravers here. The people of the Plur Life forum are really friendly, but friendly in a different way. If you think you are good at "talking trash for the LuLz," then this is the place for you if you want to know more about the rave.

I warn you though, this website has very offensive material, which is however, lightly intended. Which means they might call you offensive names but in a tough love kind of way.

Just know that the rave scene at Fanime is quite under developed (but I have high hopes of it getting better). The rave scene at Fanime is nothing close to the actual raves going on nowadays.
To be quite frank, the reason is because Fanime attendees are not on drugs, the girls are not whores, and the guys are not gangsters/douches trying to get laid.
It's sad to say but the general majority of the real rave scene is infested with people who are not there for the music, but for their own needs.
And I'm not trying to say the FAnime rave scene should be anything like the general majority ravers. The minority of people that go are the real music lovers who go with/without drugs but they just go for the music and they don't cause any trouble or grief, because they have respect for that DJ or the music.

The crooks really make the "rave scene" an unsafe environment. And I suggest that you guys stay away from becoming "too ravey" because it'll attract THOSE kinds of people. Just focus on the music

I'm talking through my own experience of raves.

Watch the video that eHash posted; the interviewees in that video are the real music lovers that provide an underground sound that is so complex that it is nearly considered religious or worship material. you can't find these kinds of things in mainstream radio stations.

So what am I trying to say? I'm actually trying to say it's all about the music. Music first, then lights, kandi, fancy costumes, come second.

But for some people, it is about the sex, drugs, social fit, or other factors. And by making it too ravey, it will no doubt attract more crooks. It's not the ravers who are the crooks, but it's the crooks who are attracted the raver's ideals.

[TC_X0_Lt_0X]

I personally have never been to a rave, but I must say I do admire Rave Culture, or rather, what it should/was. It is unfortunate what it has devolved to. Still, I would find a panel on the culture to be interesting.

[eHash]

it should be noted, that no matter how many kandi kids there are at the dance, there's always the few kandi flippers that mess it up for everyone.  Calling it a rave is such an overstatement.  Unlike other people who feel that the dance should not be called a rave for "family reasons", I feel that it shouldn't be called a rave...because it simply isn't.  This isn't a thread on the dance, though...it's a thread about a panel which I think has a place, but needs a supervised structure that promotes the most positive and intellectual arguments..

since I'm an old man...i'll use an analogy from my youth...explaining the straight edge scene in 89 during youth crew and how it differed from the general hardcore scene was much different than defending straight edge in the 90s during the militant uprising.

in any case, i am hopeful that if you are successful in getting your panel accepted, that you use legitimate sources in discussion.  parents will be in the audience with your fare share of non-plur ravers that may hinder your goal.

[Mango Bunny]

Call me naive, but what does kandi have to do with anime, video games, Japanese culture or really anything Fanime is about? If I'm missing something I really don't know, so explain it to me. If you can show me it's relevant then maybe we do need a panel!

[eHash]

Call me naive, but what does kandi have to do with anime, video games, Japanese culture or really anything Fanime is about? If I'm missing something I really don't know, so explain it to me. If you can show me it's relevant then maybe we do need a panel!

i'd have to agree except that the dances have seem to become a part of con culture....do they need a panel...I'm not convinced...
i'd love to go to a panel on digital video editting..but should that be a part of fanime...I doubt it.

[Mango Bunny]

Call me naive, but what does kandi have to do with anime, video games, Japanese culture or really anything Fanime is about? If I'm missing something I really don't know, so explain it to me. If you can show me it's relevant then maybe we do need a panel!

i'd have to agree except that the dances have seem to become a part of con culture....do they need a panel...I'm not convinced...
i'd love to go to a panel on digital video editting..but should that be a part of fanime...I doubt it.

Well, I could see some sort of digital video editing panel working. Maybe focusing on AMVs? Unless you were looking for something entirely different in which case, forget that.

People love the dance, they do. Is it a rave? No. Do people call it a rave? Yes. Does the staff enjoy that? Not at all. I think in this situation it would be very difficult to connect the two in a plausible way. Because, first of all, we do not have a rave at Fanime. That's the official word. We have a dance. Kandi is pretty exclusively a rave trend.

Correct me if I'm wrong on that, and please, if anyone can tell me how my views are wrong TELL ME! I don't do the rave thing. I don't do the Fanime dance thing. I'm semi-ignorant here.

[eHash]

Well, I could see some sort of digital video editing panel working. Maybe focusing on AMVs? Unless you were looking for something entirely different in which case, forget that.

I think that'd be cool...principles are all the same.

People love the dance, they do. Is it a rave? No. Do people call it a rave? Yes. Does the staff enjoy that? Not at all. I think in this situation it would be very difficult to connect the two in a plausible way. Because, first of all, we do not have a rave at Fanime. That's the official word. We have a dance. Kandi is pretty exclusively a rave trend.

LOL, There is no RAVE at Fanime...it's more like a glorified school dance with different music...let's be real and end it there...(for now)

Correct me if I'm wrong on that, and please, if anyone can tell me how my views are wrong TELL ME! I don't do the rave thing. I don't do the Fanime dance thing. I'm semi-ignorant here.

if you went to a rave and you went to the fanime dance thing...you'd just laugh...I understand that people like calling it a rave simply to differentiate from the b&w...but it simply is not a rave, calling it that over-hypes the negative stigma about it and invites the wrong element to try and corrupt it....perhaps it should just be renamed "the otaku prom"

[bebop]

the otaku prom LOL yeah I agree.. it is nothing close to an actual rave

I agree that its "the term the kids use" too differentiate between the other dances. perhaps they consider it a rave because we got fancy lights and electronic dance music banging (which is awesome) but it is nowhere near a rave

we should post signs saying "THIS IS NOT A RAVE, THIS IS A DANCE" or something or rename this dance to something else that totally disassociates itself from the coined term "RAVE"

Call me naive, but what does kandi have to do with anime, video games, Japanese culture or really anything Fanime is about? If I'm missing something I really don't know, so explain it to me. If you can show me it's relevant then maybe we do need a panel!

Well, kandi has absolutely nothing to do with Anime or Japanese culture. But kandi is an element of that ravey stuff. and that ravey stuff stems from electronic dance music...  and we play EDM at the Fanime dance so... you get what I mean, right? well I'll tell you one thing, there is such thing as J-Trance. Ayumi Hamasaki has remixes from prestigious DJs/Trance artists such as Ferry Corsten, Armin Van Buuren, and Above & Beyond. That is only example out of many, so we can still call the dance a J-Trance Honoring Dance, or something like that. just an idea. Since it is not only targeted to ANIME strictly, we can aim at other parts of representing "JAPANESE CULTURE," we know this through the "ASIAN FILMS VIDEO ROOMS," and such..... anyways, so if we were to successfully host a J-Trance Dance event, not only would it represent the Japanese culture, but then it would also be considered a semi-rave by the kids, and they would bring kandi outfits or bracelets in. and that is how kandi are having a slight association with fanime. im sorry i worded this out pretty bad but i hope u get the message... but there shouldnt be a problem with kandi. no one is dying from it and no one is getting hurt either

[Mango Bunny]

the otaku prom LOL yeah I agree.. it is nothing close to an actual rave

I agree that its "the term the kids use" too differentiate between the other dances. perhaps they consider it a rave because we got fancy lights and electronic dance music banging (which is awesome) but it is nowhere near a rave

we should post signs saying "THIS IS NOT A RAVE, THIS IS A DANCE" or something or rename this dance to something else that totally disassociates itself from the coined term "RAVE"

Call me naive, but what does kandi have to do with anime, video games, Japanese culture or really anything Fanime is about? If I'm missing something I really don't know, so explain it to me. If you can show me it's relevant then maybe we do need a panel!

Well, kandi has absolutely nothing to do with Anime or Japanese culture. But kandi is an element of that ravey stuff. and that ravey stuff stems from electronic dance music...  and we play EDM at the Fanime dance so... you get what I mean, right? well I'll tell you one thing, there is such thing as J-Trance. Ayumi Hamasaki has remixes from prestigious DJs/Trance artists such as Ferry Corsten, Armin Van Buuren, and Above & Beyond. That is only example out of many, so we can still call the dance a J-Trance Honoring Dance, or something like that. just an idea. Since it is not only targeted to ANIME strictly, we can aim at other parts of representing "JAPANESE CULTURE," we know this through the "ASIAN FILMS VIDEO ROOMS," and such..... anyways, so if we were to successfully host a J-Trance Dance event, not only would it represent the Japanese culture, but then it would also be considered a semi-rave by the kids, and they would bring kandi outfits or bracelets in. and that is how kandi are having a slight association with fanime. im sorry i worded this out pretty bad but i hope u get the message... but there shouldnt be a problem with kandi. no one is dying from it and no one is getting hurt either

I feel like that's trying to make it fit through vague associations.

Could you do something about J-Trance and how electronic music and its scene varies from Japan to the States? Possibly. But kandi is so... not related.

[kookiekween99]

With every person that posts, this seems less and less like a good idea... I was thinking about kandi from an artist's perspective, but this turned into a debate about the Dance. >_<

As for calling the Dance a rave, I try not to do it whenever possible, but it can get hard sometimes when someone doesn't know what you're talking about.
"Where's the Dance located?"
"Oh, you mean the Black and White Ball?"
"No, the Dance that isn't a rave."
"... The Black and White Ball?"
"No no no! The one with the electronic music and the pretty lights and the dancing!"
"Oh! You mean the rave!"
"No it's... Yes, the rave. Where is that?"

I get that it's not a rave. I really do. But it has everything about a rave I like and none of the things I don't like. Awesome music? Yes. Pretty lights? Yes. Glowsticks and kandi? Yes, that's in there too. Friendly people? That's what Fanime's all about to me. But there's no drugs or alcohol or super-craziness, which makes me feel safe. I go to the Fanime Dance because I want to be a raver but I'm scared of all the negative stuff about the scene.

As for how kandi relates to Japanese culture? I guess it doesn't, really. I just came up with the idea because one friend told me my kandi was really good and I should sell it at Artist Alley, but I told them I don't want to be stuck behind a table all day and that I want to enjoy the convention, plus kandi is something to be shared, not sold. So another friend suggested that my friend Jackie and I do a panel showing people how to make their own kandi. I wasn't sure if just a how to panel was worthy of Fanime, so I was going to make it an informational panel. That idea got shot down immediately, so I went with my original idea.

[eHash]

you could have just gone with "kandi kids and kon kulture (the safe raves)"

[bebop]

I'd hate to admit it, but I was one of the kids who called it a rave instead of a dance.

I remember waiting and line and getting into the dance, and the Rover asked me:

Rover: So, are you here for the dance?
Me: Yeah, I came for the rave. It sounds fun
Rover: You mean, the Dance, right?
Me: Yeah, I'm here for the rave.

The Rover must have -facepalmed- deep inside. lol

So what should we do? Get signs that specifically say "THIS IS NOT A RAVE"

or simply tell the attendees its not a rave

[HuggalotXOmocha]

I don't like this idea. There really is no such thing as a 'rave culture'. The only think to know about raves is that it started in Europe in the early 1900's or some shit like that, and was popular here in the 60's until now. I know that the stereotype for 'ravers', club-goers and undergrounds have to do with drugs, but believe me....It's true. Haha! I've been going to undergrounds and promoted 'raves' for a loooonng time, and KANDI does NOT define a rave.

The whole 'bra/bikini, tutu, fishnet stockings, kandi and legwarmers' getup? Real "ravers" HATE that. They're called P-TOTS. and most 'real raves' ban P-TOTS from going to their event.

Sorry for the whole "BLAH BLAH BLAH". But let me just sum it up.

Kandi has little to do with a real rave. Everybody hates the PTOT. Everybody does drugs. Young kids should not be going to raves.

I don't even consider the kids who wear Kandi to Fanime ravers anyway. haha!

But this is all just my word and opinion from experience! I may say "NO TO THE PANEL! *shakes fist*", but that don't mean you shouldn't do it. I just strongly believe that a Rave-Panel would be a little odd to show at a family event.

[kookiekween99]

I've pretty much dropped this idea. As I learn more and more about the culture, I learn that there is no single rave culture. There's so many different ideas about what a "true raver" is. Some people go to raves for the drugs, some go for the music, some go for the kandi/plur/lights/awesome, and some go for all of the above. This sort of topic can get touchy, and while I generally don't mind when opinions differ, this is a battle not worth fighting, especially since this is an anime convention and the idea was kinda a long shot anyway.

So I say we drop it, keep our opinions and go our seperate ways.