FanimeCon 2026 Forums

Ok just wanted to ask if anyone would like me to bring my Wii with SSBB and some other import games! Just asking because at 08' there was like only two Wiis with SSBB and one gamecube with SSBM! So just throwing this out there! Also do u need to bring your own TV if u bring a console or do they have TV's there that you can use?Or if someone could provide me with a TV for this I will start a tourney with prizes!

P.S.Anyone heard of the SSBB Forbidden 7?If so pleze post any info you have on them here also!

i had a fairly large tournament for ssbb running on 4 consoles.

we'll be having one in 09 probably.  im thinking of having a brawl tourney and a 1v1 tourney.  we'll c.

Ok cool and this time I will register early unlike last year!

if you register early, please register only if you actually plan to be at the tournament.  like less than half of the pre-registrants were actually there.

I will make sure Im there just like me and my friend who was Shino made sure we were there for the Naruto Ultimate Ninja 3 Tournament

i was behind the table, i had no idea what was going on with those matches XD i just took notes of winners :P

I think I remember you! LOL

1 VS 1

I had some really good matches, I forgot how I did but it was fun as hell.

SIGN ME UP NOW! LOL YOU KNOW I'LL BE THERE!

Quote from: JTchinoy on July 12, 2008, 09:08:04 PM
if you register early, please register only if you actually plan to be at the tournament.  like less than half of the pre-registrants were actually there.

<-----  :'( i didnt make it ... by the way wat costume were u wearing or something cause i remember talking to someone in a reddish with a yellow tie suit
also 1V1 plz it would be ten times better for that

wasnt me.  the only cosplay i did was on saturday when i was a filipino shipping box.
i didnt even get to really wear it since i was running tournaments for 8 hours straight.

I'm interested, I shall everyone my (lack of) skill with Lucario!

Will there be items on?

Brawl tourney should be ran just like last year

1 vs 1
Neutral Stages
Double Elimination

A better and more exciting Brawl tournament should, and can be ran with items on, and a more variety of stages other than Final Destination. Evolution put limited amount of items (including Final Smash ball) and it went fantastic. Items were built into the game for a reason, for them to be used, it's like taking CvS2, stripping it of rolling, groove bars, and other system mechanics for no reason at all.

Final Smash on please.
Because Brawl is not Melee. That is all.

I'll be looking at how EVO ran brawl, and probably using their format.
We'll see.

IMO, you should just run it with everything on. The game was built upon it having items, and if people can't handle that, then they should play another game, or just stop whining and learn it.

i'll have to think about it.
EVO used items this year, which apparently was a huge turnoff to a lot of the people who went to EVO.  I'll have to weigh it out more.
possibly hold some polls here, shoyruken, and smashboards for a democratic choice.

Well, here I'll shorten your questioning, and can already tell you how the output will be.
SRK: Items on/screw smash
Smashboards: No items
Here: Throw up between both.

I'm really not trying to be an instigator with the above, but that's how it was, and will be for whenever someone asks on these boards.

i agree that's how it'll probably end up, but might as well do it anyhow.  :P

Quote from: Mizuki on September 06, 2008, 10:19:00 PM
IMO, you should just run it with everything on. The game was built upon it having items, and if people can't handle that, then they should play another game, or just stop whining and learn it.

The main reason people complain about items is because to hardcore smash players they see using items as sort of n00bish.

Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

I'm thinking about final smash, and there's a sanctioned list of items on the evo website.  I haven't read it yet but I pray to god shit like the black hammer aren't sanctioned.  If I put up items aside from final smash, it'll be the sanctioned list.

Quote from: Mizuki on September 14, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

Good point and personally i dont care if items are on or off

Quote from: Mizuki on September 14, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

@everyone:

Items add a random factor to the game that takes away from the skill of the individual player.

This is also why certain stages are banned.

Please stop making acusations that "hardcore" smash community thinks you are "noobish" for using items. And the tourny fag comments @ the con are really not necessary, it just makes you look ignorant and vulgar.

I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

They are, however, slowly coming into the competitive scene and as stated last month will be added at my discretion.

There's 8 months left to fanime, at the november staff meeting i'll start kicking things into gear once i talk to the rest of gaming staff.

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:33:51 AM

Quote from: Mizuki on September 14, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

@everyone:

Items add a random factor to the game that takes away from the skill of the individual player.

This is also why certain stages are banned.

Please stop making acusations that "hardcore" smash community thinks you are "noobish" for using items. And the tourny fag comments @ the con are really not necessary, it just makes you look ignorant and vulgar.

Items are a random factor in Smash, so are dizzies in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, so are certain items Hisui throws in Melty Blood, so what, we should ban them? If they're random, deal with it instead of whining. In SF2 you can get dizzied at the start of the round and turned into a combo video, sure it's a pain in the butt, but you have to deal with it as a player. Utilizing something that is random does NOT take away skill, because you take the risk of using it, and then you can use it. This is basic fighting game mentality that can be applied to almost any fighting game. The reason why people banned certain stages is because they can't adapt on the spot to certain conditions, so instead of learning how a stage works, and what can happen they just ban it. If people are so good, they'll know how to counter an item, or stage. It's called LEARNING THE MATCHUP. All fighting games have to do. And there's a difference between being blunt, and vulgur.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:33:51 AM

Quote from: Mizuki on September 14, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

@everyone:

Items add a random factor to the game that takes away from the skill of the individual player.

This is also why certain stages are banned.

Please stop making acusations that "hardcore" smash community thinks you are "noobish" for using items. And the tourny fag comments @ the con are really not necessary, it just makes you look ignorant and vulgar.

Items are a random factor in Smash, so are dizzies in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, so are certain items Hisui throws in Melty Blood, so what, we should ban them? If they're random, deal with it instead of whining. In SF2 you can get dizzied at the start of the round and turned into a combo video, sure it's a pain in the butt, but you have to deal with it as a player. Utilizing something that is random does NOT take away skill, because you take the risk of using it, and then you can use it. This is basic fighting game mentality that can be applied to almost any fighting game. The reason why people banned certain stages is because they can't adapt on the spot to certain conditions, so instead of learning how a stage works, and what can happen they just ban it. If people are so good, they'll know how to counter an item, or stage. It's called LEARNING THE MATCHUP. All fighting games have to do. And there's a difference between being blunt, and vulgur.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

It has nothing to do with a player being more skilled because the pokeball that lands behind them happens to contain a legendary or something.

It has nothing to do with whether or not players can adapt or not, it is literally unfair and unbalanced to have items on.
Random effects have no place in a competitive environment. Lets say you pick up a capsule, throw it at the ground to break it, it explodes and kills you. You lose the match because of this. Is that fair? Does the other player deserve the recognition of defeating you?
No, the game earned the kill, not the other player. This is not world of warcraft, its not player versus environment, this is player versus player. You can argue all you want that a player needs to be faster and a better thinker in order to play with items, you can think that all you want. I know I can't change your mind because you are thick headed and ignorant. This is fine, i'm not here to sway your opinion, just those who are unsure about their thoughts on this topic.

So, would you rather win with skill... or chance?



Edit: last note...


Quote from: JTchinoy on Yesterday at 10:55:38 PM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

A combo is still a players doing, not the games.

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:06:16 PM

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:33:51 AM

Quote from: Mizuki on September 14, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

@everyone:

Items add a random factor to the game that takes away from the skill of the individual player.

This is also why certain stages are banned.

Please stop making acusations that "hardcore" smash community thinks you are "noobish" for using items. And the tourny fag comments @ the con are really not necessary, it just makes you look ignorant and vulgar.

Items are a random factor in Smash, so are dizzies in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, so are certain items Hisui throws in Melty Blood, so what, we should ban them? If they're random, deal with it instead of whining. In SF2 you can get dizzied at the start of the round and turned into a combo video, sure it's a pain in the butt, but you have to deal with it as a player. Utilizing something that is random does NOT take away skill, because you take the risk of using it, and then you can use it. This is basic fighting game mentality that can be applied to almost any fighting game. The reason why people banned certain stages is because they can't adapt on the spot to certain conditions, so instead of learning how a stage works, and what can happen they just ban it. If people are so good, they'll know how to counter an item, or stage. It's called LEARNING THE MATCHUP. All fighting games have to do. And there's a difference between being blunt, and vulgur.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

It has nothing to do with a player being more skilled because the pokeball that lands behind them happens to contain a legendary or something.

It has nothing to do with whether or not players can adapt or not, it is literally unfair and unbalanced to have items on.
Random effects have no place in a competitive environment. Lets say you pick up a capsule, throw it at the ground to break it, it explodes and kills you. You lose the match because of this. Is that fair? Does the other player deserve the recognition of defeating you?
No, the game earned the kill, not the other player. This is not world of warcraft, its not player versus environment, this is player versus player. You can argue all you want that a player needs to be faster and a better thinker in order to play with items, you can think that all you want. I know I can't change your mind because you are thick headed and ignorant. This is fine, i'm not here to sway your opinion, just those who are unsure about their thoughts on this topic.

So, would you rather win with skill... or chance?



Edit: last note...


Quote from: JTchinoy on Yesterday at 10:55:38 PM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

A combo is still a players doing, not the games.

Did I not just say that there are random effects in other fighting games that are 100% competitive?  If you don't want to get hit by the item, then try and grab it so the opponent doesn't get it. When you're playing fighting games there's almost no such thing as honor, this isn't war, this is a video game, you play to win. If they lose because they blow themselves up, thats fine. If you throw the capsule on the floor and it blows you up, then it's your fault, you shouldn't have grabbed it in the first place. You have to take chances, it's a part of fighting games. It's people like you that are ignorant upon the topic. Maybe if you tried playing other games to actually learn yomi, meta game, and other fighting game necesities, then you would understand where I'm coming at.

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 12:37:03 PM

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:06:16 PM

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:33:51 AM

Quote from: Mizuki on September 14, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Items were built into the game, if utilizing something built into the game is being noobish, then I don't want to know what kind of logic they're using. Have you ever seen two really good brawl people with items on? It's hard, it's tedious, and it requires a ton of thinking. You have to be on your feet, you never know when one item comes, where it's being placed, and what happens if the opponent takes it, or what if I pick it up? (in Black Hammer case.) Also, in Final Smash case, it's so easy to escape a lot of them, it requires skill, which most games need. The only thing that items bring into Brawl is skill, and the people playing without items are the noobs.

@everyone:

Items add a random factor to the game that takes away from the skill of the individual player.

This is also why certain stages are banned.

Please stop making acusations that "hardcore" smash community thinks you are "noobish" for using items. And the tourny fag comments @ the con are really not necessary, it just makes you look ignorant and vulgar.

Items are a random factor in Smash, so are dizzies in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, so are certain items Hisui throws in Melty Blood, so what, we should ban them? If they're random, deal with it instead of whining. In SF2 you can get dizzied at the start of the round and turned into a combo video, sure it's a pain in the butt, but you have to deal with it as a player. Utilizing something that is random does NOT take away skill, because you take the risk of using it, and then you can use it. This is basic fighting game mentality that can be applied to almost any fighting game. The reason why people banned certain stages is because they can't adapt on the spot to certain conditions, so instead of learning how a stage works, and what can happen they just ban it. If people are so good, they'll know how to counter an item, or stage. It's called LEARNING THE MATCHUP. All fighting games have to do. And there's a difference between being blunt, and vulgur.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

It has nothing to do with a player being more skilled because the pokeball that lands behind them happens to contain a legendary or something.

It has nothing to do with whether or not players can adapt or not, it is literally unfair and unbalanced to have items on.
Random effects have no place in a competitive environment. Lets say you pick up a capsule, throw it at the ground to break it, it explodes and kills you. You lose the match because of this. Is that fair? Does the other player deserve the recognition of defeating you?
No, the game earned the kill, not the other player. This is not world of warcraft, its not player versus environment, this is player versus player. You can argue all you want that a player needs to be faster and a better thinker in order to play with items, you can think that all you want. I know I can't change your mind because you are thick headed and ignorant. This is fine, i'm not here to sway your opinion, just those who are unsure about their thoughts on this topic.

So, would you rather win with skill... or chance?



Edit: last note...


Quote from: JTchinoy on Yesterday at 10:55:38 PM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

A combo is still a players doing, not the games.

Did I not just say that there are random effects in other fighting games that are 100% competitive?  If you don't want to get hit by the item, then try and grab it so the opponent doesn't get it. When you're playing fighting games there's almost no such thing as honor, this isn't war, this is a video game, you play to win. If they lose because they blow themselves up, thats fine. If you throw the capsule on the floor and it blows you up, then it's your fault, you shouldn't have grabbed it in the first place. You have to take chances, it's a part of fighting games. It's people like you that are ignorant upon the topic. Maybe if you tried playing other games to actually learn yomi, meta game, and other fighting game necesities, then you would understand where I'm coming at.

Well the thing about the whole random factor in other competitive games is this...

YOU CANNOT TURN IT OFF.

Guess what, in this game you can.

Weird.

Just because you have the option of turning it off does it mean you should use it? The game was built upon the fact that the engine has certain things. You don't bend a game to your own will to play it, that just means you don't want to take the time to learn how a game was made because it's too complicated or whatever excuse you have.

(https://forums.fanime.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg357.imageshack.us%2Fimg357%2F9420%2Fcaptainfalconunlockedns1.jpg&hash=d1f1dbe8fa55405c740c06309522c79fdc62e490)
Win.

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 12:38:59 PM

Well the thing about the whole random factor in other competitive games is this...

YOU CANNOT TURN IT OFF.

Guess what, in this game you can.

Weird.

But this doesn't make sense. Some characters work off random chance. Zappa and Faust for example in GG, random luck has a lot to do with the characters. If you could turn off random, and you could choose what spirit/item you got, then it could easily make things broken/useless.

I think in top level play, items can cause upsets, and this does change how the game is played, but Smash isn't meant to be played the way most competitive players play it. Smash became competitive due to GLITCHES. It was never meant to be played like that, but people turned it into something else by utilizing glitches and creating high level play.

CvS2:EO removed roll canceling. How come tournaments don't use EO? Roll cancels imbalance the game towards A-groove(and C for that matter).

The issue of items on or off...

Here's the thing. Fanime tournaments aren't major competitive tournaments. Fanime tournaments are not a step to Qualifiers for SBO. They are not note worthy achievements like ranking at EVO. The tournaments at fanime are for attendees to compete and have fun with other players. There is no huge cash bounty, there is no major bragging rights... It's why I honestly don't give a crap about the tourneys at Fanime. If I have time to kill I'll enter them.

For the sake of argument, let's say I agree with you 100%. Items imbalance the game, and in top competitive smash, items should not be allowed. For the sake of argument lets say this is a 100% truth in the world, and every competitive smash player in the world, every major organizer in the world agrees with this.

I still think items should be on at fanime. Why? Because it's a god damned anime convention set up for people to have fun.

Oh well, you people are too headstrong to see anyone elses opinion without hammering it down. I'm sure once the tourny actually gets here and the real players show up, other than the 5 people on this board things might change.

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 08:15:35 PM
Oh well, you people are too headstrong to see anyone elses opinion without hammering it down. I'm sure once the tourny actually gets here and the real players show up, other than the 5 people on this board things might change.

Uhhh, have you seen your own posts? 

Real players? You mean like Ken who is on Survivor, CPU who will probably be in school, and the other finalists at Evo who probably have better things to do? Real players are the people who are playing All-Brawl rules, who go to real fighting game majors and understand fighting games, and why items shouldn't be taken away. It's people like you is the reason why people HATE the smash community a lot. If you don't want items on, and only final destination go and play with your friends on Melee.

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 08:15:35 PM
Oh well, you people are too headstrong to see anyone elses opinion without hammering it down. I'm sure once the tourny actually gets here and the real players show up, other than the 5 people on this board things might change.

Are you really that stupid? Do you really think that most people at fanime are hardcore competitive smash players? Do you really think the majority of smash players at fanime play no items at home and ban stages that might be unfair?

You are really really really stupid if you honestly believe that. The con needs to think of the majority. And if you want to get your panties in a bunch because you(the minority) want the tourney to be ran a specific way, throw your own tourney in your room and invite people to go. Frankly, I see what your opinion is, but YOU'RE not seeing the opinion of anyone else. All you care about is "LOLOL I PLAY SMASH COMPETITIVELY, SO EVERYONE SHOULD PLAY BY MY RULES!"

In this case, it's a matter of opinion, and purely opinion what you prefer to play. The majority will win. Realistically, what you SHOULD be suggesting is that when the tourney happens, those that sign up VOTE for whether it be items or not, and the majority will win. However, that would be having to take it up with whoever is running the tourney, and hoping they'll agree.

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 22, 2008, 08:28:30 PM

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 22, 2008, 08:15:35 PM
Oh well, you people are too headstrong to see anyone elses opinion without hammering it down. I'm sure once the tourny actually gets here and the real players show up, other than the 5 people on this board things might change.

Are you really that stupid? Do you really think that most people at fanime are hardcore competitive smash players? Do you really think the majority of smash players at fanime play no items at home and ban stages that might be unfair?

You are really really really stupid if you honestly believe that. The con needs to think of the majority. And if you want to get your panties in a bunch because you(the minority) want the tourney to be ran a specific way, throw your own tourney in your room and invite people to go. Frankly, I see what your opinion is, but YOU'RE not seeing the opinion of anyone else. All you care about is "LOLOL I PLAY SMASH COMPETITIVELY, SO EVERYONE SHOULD PLAY BY MY RULES!"

In this case, it's a matter of opinion, and purely opinion what you prefer to play. The majority will win. Realistically, what you SHOULD be suggesting is that when the tourney happens, those that sign up VOTE for whether it be items or not, and the majority will win. However, that would be having to take it up with whoever is running the tourney, and hoping they'll agree.

ok alot of people might not use items off when they are playing at home but i'm sure that they understand that at a tournament the rules are different.

so what you should do is keep the tournament with items off and then the casual play have them on for any one who wants them on. 

Quote from: IndaMix on October 22, 2008, 10:19:16 PMok alot of people might not use items off when they are playing at home but i'm sure that they understand that at a tournament the rules are different.

so what you should do is keep the tournament with items off and then the casual play have them on for any one who wants them on. 

At a major tournament you might have an argument. Once more, this isn't a regionals. This isn't EVO. This isn't a major competitive tournament. This is Fanime. I'm sure competitive players understand that this isn't a major tournament and it's meant more for the attendees to have fun and compete against other people. If you want to go to a smash tournament... go to a damned major smash tournament and argue there about how it shouldn't have items. In which case according to which you go to, they may or may not agree with you.

As I said. If you want to have a super competitive smash tourney, throw a tournament in your room, and have it no items, ban whatever the hell you want and do it under the name of "balance".

The fanime tournaments for the most part, are more about the attendees over the super competitive players.

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

I'm sorry but that's an apples to oranges comparison.  Wall carry is controlled by the player, the player can manipulate positioning on the map so that their launchers will get wall combos.  A wall combo doesn't magically appear in the game like an item, it's ALWAYS there.  I don't see how comparing chance of the draw (item appearance) is comparable to me carrying you to the wall.  So you can drop that mizuki wins pic because he failed.

Pyron is right, however, in this isn't a major tournament.  I just figured last year that I'd make e-gaming as organized as the rest of the con and make it stand out in its own right.  Unlike most fighting games, Smash is indeed sitting on the wall between fighting and party games.  I might consider doing a brawl tourney (1v1v1v1) and a 1v1 item tourney instead of the professional this year.  In defense of no item rules, however, our turnout last year for "pro" format was overwhelming to say the least.  We had an Evo level turnout, most of which contained competitive players to my understanding.  If we were to turn brawl into a fun tournament, you have to keep in mind we'll have signups that will dwarf last year's. 

I'm still on the fence.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 11:02:09 PM

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

I'm sorry but that's an apples to oranges comparison.  Wall carry is controlled by the player, the player can manipulate positioning on the map so that their launchers will get wall combos.  A wall combo doesn't magically appear in the game like an item, it's ALWAYS there.  I don't see how comparing chance of the draw (item appearance) is comparable to me carrying you to the wall.  So you can drop that mizuki wins pic because he failed.

Pyron is right, however, in this isn't a major tournament.  I just figured last year that I'd make e-gaming as organized as the rest of the con and make it stand out in its own right.  Unlike most fighting games, Smash is indeed sitting on the wall between fighting and party games.  I might consider doing a brawl tourney (1v1v1v1) and a 1v1 item tourney instead of the professional this year.  In defense of no item rules, however, our turnout last year for "pro" format was overwhelming to say the least.  We had an Evo level turnout, most of which contained competitive players to my understanding.  If we were to turn brawl into a fun tournament, you have to keep in mind we'll have signups that will dwarf last year's. 

I'm still on the fence.

i agree, i was there last year and i do know alot of the people who signed up and they signed up to play in a "pro" tournament rule setting, and no one there complained that there should be items on.

Gee... how many people from DBR were there...?

How many so-cal smashers were there?

Quite a few.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 11:02:09 PM

I'm sorry but that's an apples to oranges comparison.  Wall carry is controlled by the player, the player can manipulate positioning on the map so that their launchers will get wall combos.  A wall combo doesn't magically appear in the game like an item, it's ALWAYS there.  I don't see how comparing chance of the draw (item appearance) is comparable to me carrying you to the wall.  So you can drop that mizuki wins pic because he failed.

Pyron is right, however, in this isn't a major tournament.  I just figured last year that I'd make e-gaming as organized as the rest of the con and make it stand out in its own right.  Unlike most fighting games, Smash is indeed sitting on the wall between fighting and party games.  I might consider doing a brawl tourney (1v1v1v1) and a 1v1 item tourney instead of the professional this year.  In defense of no item rules, however, our turnout last year for "pro" format was overwhelming to say the least.  We had an Evo level turnout, most of which contained competitive players to my understanding.  If we were to turn brawl into a fun tournament, you have to keep in mind we'll have signups that will dwarf last year's. 

I'm still on the fence.

Oh, do you really want to try arguing with me JT? Let's take SCIII. I play Nightmare(hypothetically). We get tiny ring stage via random select. That random select stage, just gave me almost a guaranteed win, since I can ring out from 3/4 into the ring(as in my back is a 1/4 way from one edge they are 3/4 away from the other edge). Nightmare has such a HUGE advantage on that stage it's not even funny. Taki basically sucks balls on that stage. She's so limited since almost all of her 8 way run stuff puts her right next to the edge, that a lucky hit and I fall off.

Now on full wall stage, I'm at a disadvantage as Nightmare... period. Nightmares main game is aiming for a ring out, luck of the stage can mean losing or not.

The same could be said about smash. You realize a lot of characters are better on certain stages. There was a big issue about Final Destination and banning it, since Ice Climbers(in melee) have an advantage since it's way easier for them to land infinite since there's no way to really zone from them.

None of this is guaranteed though, and it's just minor things based on luck. You can easily argue the same for items in Smash. "You only won because you got that item". But if it was the other way, they could have only lost if the item was there.

I've lost in A3 tournaments because I was on 2nd player side. Due to "random" factors that happen to the 2nd player side that don't on the first player. Missed VC's because of 2nd player turn around in the corner.

I've almost lost GGXX tourney matches because of Faust super, I've also won GGXX tourney matches because of Faust super.

T4 is always Cage, but t5 was always played on random. Getting a non-wall stage compared to a wall stage, could mean winning or losing based on a random factor of luck. A player can utilize the wall, which could lead to that extra damage needed to win. If a non-wall stage happened, they wouldn't have had that, who knows what would have happened with that extra life. It could have been anyone's game.

Random factors always appear.

Yes, you want to remove factors that are completely random but a lot of being good, is being able to cope with random factors. You want a fun random factor that was the difference between winning and losing?

Hsien vs Amir 3s for 1000$. Amir tried to chip super Hsien. Hsien parried the first half, the crowd got so loud that he couldn't hear, and because of that mis-timed the gap between the rotations causing him to get hit. You want a random factor, there you go. The crowd. Should we now ban people from watching, since they cause noise which is now a factor that changes the state of playing?

Back to Smash... items cannot be called a legitimate game changer. You get lucky and a pokeball appears and it's legendary. It's up to the other player to cope. It's the same as if Faust's item super gets 2 mini fausts and a meteor. It's up to the other player to cope with the opponent getting the luck of the draw.

Items do not break the game, they just change it. To be honest, it changes to... how the game was meant to be played in nintendo's eyes. While I agree, that items off is a better judge of "seeing who is better at the match up between the chosen characters" I don't necessarily agree that items off is a better judge of who is the better smash player.  

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 11:02:09 PM

Quote from: Mizuki on October 22, 2008, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 22, 2008, 12:55:38 AM
I agree with impulse in the fact that an entire game can be turned around (in the bad stupid way) by items.

So can a wallcombo in Tekken, but as a fact us fighting game players have to deal with it.

I'm sorry but that's an apples to oranges comparison.  Wall carry is controlled by the player, the player can manipulate positioning on the map so that their launchers will get wall combos.  A wall combo doesn't magically appear in the game like an item, it's ALWAYS there.  I don't see how comparing chance of the draw (item appearance) is comparable to me carrying you to the wall.  So you can drop that mizuki wins pic because he failed.

I was using the Wall combo theory as in something dumb can easily turn something around (in a bad stupid way.)

Then why don't use random stage in Brawl as well?  I honestly don't know why there's select stages for pro tournaments if we're arguing that randomness is a key component of fighting games. 

Agreed that the stage can determine the winner in fighting games.  Agreed it's a random factor effecting game (as I have the advantage in Tekken 6 during wall stages).  I still don't feel it's a comparable argument to turn on items.  My point in hating items on is the fact that you're mid game and you might kill them, then magically some random item of woohoo godliness appears.  That can turn that entire match around for no reason during the match.  Random stage is different.  Yes it's random, and it determines advantage FROM THE START of a match.  I find that knowing the stage from the get-go (thus being able to already know your game plan before that game starts) is extremely different from Brawl's "okay I'm going to kill him, fuck a laser sword or bomb dropped, fall back!"  A shorter explanation for anyone else reading is you can play based on the stage in a consistent manner.  You however, can't play a consistent style in brawl since you can't anticipate where and what item will drop.

A static random factor that effects the match before it starts is different from a dynamic random factor that can come at any given moment.  If random power ups started dropping randomly in a tekken match, I'd fucking turn that shit off.

Mizuki I assume the given fact that items are a random event didn't come to mind when you read the original quote.  You're arguing against "dumb things" not against a random factor.  I'll agree with you 100% that Tekken 6 walls are garbage.  Granted I 60% with jack on a whim and 70% with xiaoyu, I still can't wait for T6:BR to be released.  Your argument seems to be on a different wavelength from mine so I'll drop it as we aren't on the same page.

I don't even know why I'm debating with you guys on this.  I'm on the fence and I really don't care to support my argument.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 23, 2008, 12:15:01 AM
Then why don't use random stage in Brawl as well?  I honestly don't know why there's select stages for pro tournaments if we're arguing that randomness is a key component of fighting games. 

Agreed that the stage can determine the winner in fighting games.  Agreed it's a random factor effecting game (as I have the advantage in Tekken 6 during wall stages).  I still don't feel it's a comparable argument to turn on items.  My point in hating items on is the fact that you're mid game and you might kill them, then magically some random item of woohoo godliness appears.  That can turn that entire match around for no reason during the match.  Random stage is different.  Yes it's random, and it determines advantage FROM THE START of a match.  I find that knowing the stage from the get-go (thus being able to already know your game plan before that game starts) is extremely different from Brawl's "okay I'm going to kill him, fuck a laser sword or bomb dropped, fall back!"  A shorter explanation for anyone else reading is you can play based on the stage in a consistent manner.  You however, can't play a consistent style in brawl since you can't anticipate where and what item will drop.

A static random factor that effects the match before it starts is different from a dynamic random factor that can come at any given moment.  If random power ups started dropping randomly in a tekken match, I'd fucking turn that shit off.

Mizuki I assume the given fact that items are a random event didn't come to mind when you read the original quote.  You're arguing against "dumb things" not against a random factor.  I'll agree with you 100% that Tekken 6 walls are garbage.  Granted I 60% with jack on a whim and 70% with xiaoyu, I still can't wait for T6:BR to be released.  Your argument seems to be on a different wavelength from mine so I'll drop it as we aren't on the same page.

See my faust/zappa argument in GG. You have advantage and I throw a meteor, or I do super item drop and a bomb drops off screen. You have to go "oh shit" and back off. If you didn't see the bomb(which to be honest is super hard to see) and boom you get hit by bomb, then meteors and I juggle(which is 60% for free).

You act as if items are godly in Smash Bros. Items don't turn the tide that much. Some items are good. At the tourney that just past, a guy got 3 legendary pokemon in a row, which helped him win. But it's not like items are insta-win in smash bros. Great items appear, and you still have to utilize said item well for it to be in any way effective. The only thing that doesn't is hearts/life items. But with that being said, life items don't TURN THE BATTLE. You can be at 100% and your opponent at 20% and you can still beat him. Picking up life and going to 60% doesn't mean you'll win, and not getting that means you'll lose. Pulling a legendary doesn't mean you instantly won.

It just adds to strategy. An item appears. Learn to cope with what ever it is. Learn to counter how the item works, and know how to avoid it. If the item is in your favor, learn to utilize it so that it's not just another wasted item. JT you don't seem to realize how much run-away is part of smash. Using sonic or Pit and running under the map to avoid attacks, or to stall. Stuff like that is always happening.

Want a fun random factor? Doing a shoryuken or tiger uppercut in SF4 only to have it trade with your opponent, meaning, you get a free ultra, doing 40% because YOUR anti-air traded for some reason.

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 23, 2008, 12:15:01 AM

Mizuki I assume the given fact that items are a random event didn't come to mind when you read the original quote.  You're arguing against "dumb things" not against a random factor.  I'll agree with you 100% that Tekken 6 walls are garbage.  Granted I 60% with jack on a whim and 70% with xiaoyu, I still can't wait for T6:BR to be released.  Your argument seems to be on a different wavelength from mine so I'll drop it as we aren't on the same page.

I'm arguing about both just fyi.

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 23, 2008, 12:27:19 AM


Want a fun random factor? Doing a shoryuken or tiger uppercut in SF4 only to have it trade with your opponent, meaning, you get a free ultra, doing 40% because YOUR anti-air traded for some reason.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  That game never ceases to disappoint me.  Dragon punch invincibility is gone I take it?

Indeed my items argument began to fail me as I read over it.  *shrug*

And Mizuki, if you care enough about your argument, please clarify how a controllable factor of tekken and a random factor of smash is an apples to apples comparison?  I still see apples to oranges.  Uncontrolled appearance mid game to static characteristic of the stage that never changes (except in 1 stage of tekken6)

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 23, 2008, 12:37:08 AM

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 23, 2008, 12:27:19 AM


Want a fun random factor? Doing a shoryuken or tiger uppercut in SF4 only to have it trade with your opponent, meaning, you get a free ultra, doing 40% because YOUR anti-air traded for some reason.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  That game never ceases to disappoint me.  Dragon punch invincibility is gone I take it?

Indeed my items argument began to fail me as I read over it.  *shrug*

And Mizuki, if you care enough about your argument, please clarify how a controllable factor of tekken and a random factor of smash is an apples to apples comparison?  I still see apples to oranges.  Uncontrolled appearance mid game to static characteristic of the stage that never changes (except in 1 stage of tekken6)

I meant overall T.T

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 23, 2008, 12:27:19 AM
You act as if items are godly in Smash Bros. Items don't turn the tide that much. Some items are good. At the tourney that just past, a guy got 3 legendary pokemon in a row, which helped him win. But it's not like items are insta-win in smash bros. Great items appear, and you still have to utilize said item well for it to be in any way effective. The only thing that doesn't is hearts/life items. But with that being said, life items don't TURN THE BATTLE. You can be at 100% and your opponent at 20% and you can still beat him. Picking up life and going to 60% doesn't mean you'll win, and not getting that means you'll lose. Pulling a legendary doesn't mean you instantly won.

It just adds to strategy. An item appears. Learn to cope with what ever it is. Learn to counter how the item works, and know how to avoid it. If the item is in your favor, learn to utilize it so that it's not just another wasted item. JT you don't seem to realize how much run-away is part of smash. Using sonic or Pit and running under the map to avoid attacks, or to stall. Stuff like that is always happening.

It's just as JTchinoy said in his post. Items always spawn randomly, and if they happen to spawn right next to your opponent during your last stock, you are instantly put at a disadvantage. Sure sometime items may spawn in the middle and it creates a situation where you have to fight for it, but more often than not the items will create UNPREVENTABLE advantages to a certain player.

Q)"Items don't turn the tide that much. Some items are good."
R)Using words like those are very vague and doesn't prove anything, that's like saying  some items are good and some are bad, but none are good enough to turn the tide which is obviously false(remember that time you won a game because a bomb-omb/box popped up right on top of your opponent at the last second and sent him flying to his doom?).

Q)"At the tourney that just past, a guy got 3 legendary pokemon in a row, which helped him win. But it's not like items are insta-win in smash bros. Pulling a legendary doesn't mean you instantly won."
R)You just totally contradicted yourself there. True legendaries might not help you end the game instantly(lol @ insta win item) however they usually tip the scales because they are heavy hitting and are usually hard to avoid due to large AoE. It gives the person with a pokeball an unfair advantage with no balancing of power to the player who didn't get the pokeball.

Q)"Great items appear, and you still have to utilize said item well for it to be in any way effective. The only thing that doesn't is hearts/life items. But with that being said, life items don't TURN THE BATTLE."
R)I beg to differ, if a match was very even, and someone was at high percent(that usually happens in smash games doesn't it) and say they get a heart, or even a 50% pumpkin thing, it could heal them to a % which is below kill range. That basically means a second chance, FOR FREE. There is nothing to compensate the player that didn't get the heal, therefore putting him at an unfair advantage for NO REASON AT ALL.

Q)"It just adds to strategy. An item appears. Learn to cope with what ever it is. Learn to counter how the item works, and know how to avoid it. If the item is in your favor, learn to utilize it so that it's not just another wasted item. JT you don't seem to realize how much run-away is part of smash. Using sonic or Pit and running under the map to avoid attacks, or to stall. Stuff like that is always happening."
R)You can say items add to strategy. You can practice the art of grabbing items all day, but you will never be able to stop your opponent from grabbing the item if it is too far away from you, or say you are off the edge and an item appears(sucks for you doesn't it). You can learn the ways items work and how to avoid them as best as possible, BUT there are just somethings you just CAN'T avoid, examples could be the legendary pokemon(large area of effect, high damage), final smashes(some affect the whole map and are impossible to dodge, many others are one hit KO not to mention the smash ball floats around at random). Some items are impossible counter, items(again) like final smashes(heh good luck countering those), bomb-omb spawns on top of you, legendary/normal pokemon, assist trophies(good luck countering 2 flying ninjas that you can't get rid of), nearly any item actually. I think YOU don't realize what the true nature of smash is, run-away does not even begin to describe the amount of mindgaming involved(go visit smashboards.com, it will open your eyes). Not all characters can run under the map to avoid attacks, and sometimes you just can't get away in time(UNAVOIDABLE) so that is not a valid argument just because a handful of characters can stall.





If this is TL;DR for you basically I said "no items plz". Also JTchinoy would we be considering a possible ban on Metaknight? There have been quite a few discussions of it on smashboards and even a stickied thread with 400+ replies http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057 (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057) There's also a poll here>>http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200718 (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200718).

Looking forward to some good Smash games at Fanime.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 26, 2008, 09:24:26 PM

It's just as JTchinoy said in his post. Items always spawn randomly, and if they happen to spawn right next to your opponent during your last stock, you are instantly put at a disadvantage. Sure sometime items may spawn in the middle and it creates a situation where you have to fight for it, but more often than not the items will create UNPREVENTABLE advantages to a certain player.

Have you ever played any fighting game before other than Smash? Unpreventable advantages to a player, I can name a few. Lets say I get full A-Groove meter in Capcom vs SNK2, you're K-groove at 1/4 life, and I'm Sakura. I activate at a range where you either block it or eat it. Eating it would cause you to die, blocking it would cause you to die from chip damage. You know how many times that's happened to me? I get pissed, but I deal with it and play it.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 26, 2008, 09:24:26 PM
Q)"At the tourney that just past, a guy got 3 legendary pokemon in a row, which helped him win. But it's not like items are insta-win in smash bros. Pulling a legendary doesn't mean you instantly won."
R)You just totally contradicted yourself there. True legendaries might not help you end the game instantly(lol @ insta win item) however they usually tip the scales because they are heavy hitting and are usually hard to avoid due to large AoE. It gives the person with a pokeball an unfair advantage with no balancing of power to the player who didn't get the pokeball.

Oh god, I got hit by Paint the Fence (CvS2, Bison's Custom Combo), He has an unfair advantage! It's just like getting hit by a super or a high damaging combo in any fighting game.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 26, 2008, 09:24:26 PM
Q)"Great items appear, and you still have to utilize said item well for it to be in any way effective. The only thing that doesn't is hearts/life items. But with that being said, life items don't TURN THE BATTLE."
R)I beg to differ, if a match was very even, and someone was at high percent(that usually happens in smash games doesn't it) and say they get a heart, or even a 50% pumpkin thing, it could heal them to a % which is below kill range. That basically means a second chance, FOR FREE. There is nothing to compensate the player that didn't get the heal, therefore putting him at an unfair advantage for NO REASON AT ALL.

Oh lord, I really hate to use this example, but here, Melty Blood. I activate Heat/Blood Heat mode. I'm gaining my life back!

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 26, 2008, 09:24:26 PM
Q)"It just adds to strategy. An item appears. Learn to cope with what ever it is. Learn to counter how the item works, and know how to avoid it. If the item is in your favor, learn to utilize it so that it's not just another wasted item. JT you don't seem to realize how much run-away is part of smash. Using sonic or Pit and running under the map to avoid attacks, or to stall. Stuff like that is always happening."
R)You can say items add to strategy. You can practice the art of grabbing items all day, but you will never be able to stop your opponent from grabbing the item if it is too far away from you, or say you are off the edge and an item appears(sucks for you doesn't it). You can learn the ways items work and how to avoid them as best as possible, BUT there are just somethings you just CAN'T avoid, examples could be the legendary pokemon(large area of effect, high damage), final smashes(some affect the whole map and are impossible to dodge, many others are one hit KO not to mention the smash ball floats around at random). Some items are impossible counter, items(again) like final smashes(heh good luck countering those), bomb-omb spawns on top of you, legendary/normal pokemon, assist trophies(good luck countering 2 flying ninjas that you can't get rid of), nearly any item actually. I think YOU don't realize what the true nature of smash is, run-away does not even begin to describe the amount of mindgaming involved(go visit smashboards.com, it will open your eyes). Not all characters can run under the map to avoid attacks, and sometimes you just can't get away in time(UNAVOIDABLE) so that is not a valid argument just because a handful of characters can stall.
NO REASON AT ALL.

OH LORD, did you say some FSes are unavoidable? PLEASE give me an example, other than Sonic, which is guareenteed a loss of life, but it's not like he has anything else! Mindgames, Uhm, you're talking about all this talk and not understanding what mindgames are added when items are involved? And Smashboards is a joke, why don't you go on Shoryuken.com, smash section, where you have people actually playing the game with items and not complaining about JACK SQUAT. Granted, some characters can NOT run under the map, it's called next round counter with another character, or learning to deal with it, if you want to stick with an awful character, then fine by me. I play one of the worst characters in CvS2 and I eat a lot of things I can deal with if I played another character, but hey I decide to keep playing this character.

Why don't you watch the Evo finals for Smash Brawl on youtube. Find them. I bet half the stuff you say is countered with those videos.
Scratch that, watch Keits' All-Brawl videos on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/Rockeits
And lol @ Meta Knight banning, that's a whole nother post I'll deal with tommorow.

Quote from: Mizuki on October 26, 2008, 10:11:20 PM
Have you ever played any fighting game before other than Smash? Unpreventable advantages to a player, I can name a few. Lets say I get full A-Groove meter in Capcom vs SNK2, you're K-groove at 1/4 life, and I'm Sakura. I activate at a range where you either block it or eat it. Eating it would cause you to die, blocking it would cause you to die from chip damage. You know how many times that's happened to me? I get pissed, but I deal with it and play it.

Oh god, I got hit by Paint the Fence (CvS2, Bison's Custom Combo), He has an unfair advantage! It's just like getting hit by a super or a high damaging combo in any fighting game.

Oh lord, I really hate to use this example, but here, Melty Blood. I activate Heat/Blood Heat mode. I'm gaining my life back!


OH LORD, did you say some FSes are unavoidable? PLEASE give me an example, other than Sonic, which is guareenteed a loss of life, but it's not like he has anything else! Mindgames, Uhm, you're talking about all this talk and not understanding what mindgames are added when items are involved? And Smashboards is a joke, why don't you go on Shoryuken.com, smash section, where you have people actually playing the game with items and not complaining about JACK SQUAT. Granted, some characters can NOT run under the map, it's called next round counter with another character, or learning to deal with it, if you want to stick with an awful character, then fine by me. I play one of the worst characters in CvS2 and I eat a lot of things I can deal with if I played another character, but hey I decide to keep playing this character.

Why don't you watch the Evo finals for Smash Brawl on youtube. Find them. I bet half the stuff you say is countered with those videos.
Scratch that, watch Keits' All-Brawl videos on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/Rockeits
And lol @ Meta Knight banning, that's a whole nother post I'll deal with tommorow.

Q)"Have you ever played any fighting game before other than Smash? Unpreventable advantages to a player, I can name a few. Lets say I get full A-Groove meter in Capcom vs SNK2, you're K-groove at 1/4 life, and I'm Sakura. I activate at a range where you either block it or eat it. Eating it would cause you to die, blocking it would cause you to die from chip damage. You know how many times that's happened to me? I get pissed, but I deal with it and play it."
R)Lol, sorry to say no I haven't really played any other fighting game seriously other than smash, although I have a friend who does and keeps trying to pull me into them ;D. The example you gave was(I'm assuming) some sort of power meter that charges up as you're fighting(due to hitting the opponent or getting hit?) and you do a combo in which I am cornered and I will die either way right? Well that can't be compared to getting an item, getting an item is an advantage randomly generated by the game which nobody can control, unlike the power meter in Capcom vs SNK2. Sure I can just DEAL with being killed by items and take it like a man, but I would rather just play a more "fair" game.(that's my opinion of a fair game though, may not be yours)

Q)"Oh god, I got hit by Paint the Fence (CvS2, Bison's Custom Combo), He has an unfair advantage! It's just like getting hit by a super or a high damaging combo in any fighting game."
R)Sorry again, I don't know what it takes to even initiate a Bison's Custom Combo(although I'm guessing it's some super move you get after charging up some power[and M.Bison character right?]). It's not an unfair advantage to get hit by a combo, the combo is in game and you can see it coming at any time. Having a pokeball pop-up next to your opponent and him throwing it is an entirely different matter because the ball did not exist before and is impossible to predict. You can see the combo coming in CvS2(I'm guessing again). Once again you can't compare a high damaging combo to high damaging items because both characters have high damaging combos in CvS2 while in Brawl, there is a random chance of either person getting a high damage item spontaneuously.

Q)Oh lord, I really hate to use this example, but here, Melty Blood. I activate Heat/Blood Heat mode. I'm gaining my life back!
R)Oh man I'm on a roll, I don't know what Heat/Blood Heat mode is. I'm guessing(for the billionth time) that both characters have Heat/Blood mode in Melty Blood. Like the previous argument this can't be compared to Brawl in which no one has the innate ability to heal(with the exception of ness and lucas absorbing stuff but that hardly counts). Items would mean a random advantage of healing to a random person and cannot be controlled, unlike Heat/Blood Head mode(which is not random I'm assuming).

Q)OH LORD, did you say some FSes are unavoidable? PLEASE give me an example, other than Sonic, which is guareenteed a loss of life, but it's not like he has anything else! Mindgames, Uhm, you're talking about all this talk and not understanding what mindgames are added when items are involved? And Smashboards is a joke, why don't you go on Shoryuken.com, smash section, where you have people actually playing the game with items and not complaining about JACK SQUAT. Granted, some characters can NOT run under the map, it's called next round counter with another character, or learning to deal with it, if you want to stick with an awful character, then fine by me. I play one of the worst characters in CvS2 and I eat a lot of things I can deal with if I played another character, but hey I decide to keep playing this character.
R)Zelda/Shiek's arrow is nearly instantaneous, as with some other FSes, and they have incredible range/hit boxes. Sure they are avoidable but nearly impossible to because of their speed which essentially makes it UNAVOIDABLE if used correctly. You can say "don't get hit" but that applies to every attack.  I know mindgames are added when items are involved, but the cost of those mindgames is the unbalancing of power in the game(I would take balance over item mindgames anyday). Smasboards is definitely not a joke, Mew2King, as well as other top level players have discussions there.(although I don't know how it compares to other hardcore fighting game boards out there). "it's called next round counter with another character, or learning to deal with it", what if there was no next round, what if it was your finals round or just any round, and losing means losing a ridiculous sum of money or being eliminated out of the tourney? I guess you'll just have to learn to deal with it. I never said I wanted to stick with an awful character, and not all non-flying/crazy recovery characters are bad.

Thanks for responding to my post, but please don't degrade me by saying that I can't handle items because you think I think they are too strong. I'm fine with playing with them, I would just prefer not to if possible. Haha and I don't have anything personal against you when I am in this discussion, don't want to be on the bad side of a moderator  ;D

I'm tired, I'll respond to what you posted yesterday, but don't be afraid to discuss stuff in a serious matter and make me wrong, I'll accept if I'm wrong if what I read seems to be a strong statement, and holds truth. Also, don't suck up to me, please.

I laughed so hard at all this.

That's good to know...and I'm not sucking up to you >_> There's no benefits to sucking up to a moderator. And sucking up sucks in general lol.

I actually think obtaining and item is obtaining meter in my opinion. You have to fight for it in a way, and you can reap the rewards if you get it.

I see where you're going with the healing thing, and my response is basically, you gotta learn how to get his life back down.

IIRC you can dodge Shiek's FS on reaction, I've seen it done quite a lot.

Also, I don't think I mean you directly should change character, I was throwing it out there as an argument, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Also, you should still watch the videos on Rockeits' youtube page =)

Le sigh...

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 26, 2008, 09:24:26 PM
It's just as JTchinoy said in his post. Items always spawn randomly, and if they happen to spawn right next to your opponent during your last stock, you are instantly put at a disadvantage. Sure sometime items may spawn in the middle and it creates a situation where you have to fight for it, but more often than not the items will create UNPREVENTABLE advantages to a certain player.

Yes, items do that. This happened in Samurai Showdown 1 and 2 as well. Did that make the game unplayable? Did it make people bitch and complain that it was unfair? People get lucky and meat falls next to them, others get unlucky and a bomb falls next to them. OHNOS! If you can't cope with that, then you're not very good.

QuoteUsing words like those are very vague and doesn't prove anything, that's like saying  some items are good and some are bad, but none are good enough to turn the tide which is obviously false(remember that time you won a game because a bomb-omb/box popped up right on top of your opponent at the last second and sent him flying to his doom?).

You're not even arguing something here. And you're wrong. If a bomb-om appears right on top of him at the last second... he should have saw it and avoided it. That's his fault. If a good item appears next to him, it's your job to prevent him from picking it up. That's what pressure is for. You can't just let your opponent do whatever he wants. This is key in any game. How is letting him pick up an item, any different than say... letting your opponent build meter in a different fighting game? In certain games, letting your opponent build meter is WORSE than your opponent picking up a pokeball in Smash. It's your job to make your opponent RISK picking up the item and not get hit by a combo. If you're staying far away and and trying to distance yourself... it's your fault that he picked up the item that spawned near him. You can see items spawning before they're able to pick them up, you have to react and prevent it.

Why the hell am I telling a smash player how to play? It's stupid.

This is honestly why I hate smash players. The majority of them don't play other games, so they think what they do is HOW THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. It honestly irritates me because they have such a narrow minded view.

In MvC2 you can run around all day with storm and it's near impossible for your opponent to hit you. The drawback of this is that, they can build meter freely. By allowing them to do so, you put yourself at a bad advantage to eat a lot of chip damage and maybe even a lucky super will hit when you're dashing away, which means you lose Storm off a 100% combo. If you're letting your opponent pick crap up, that's your fault. There is a random factor in items, we know that. Guess what though, that factor was MEANT TO BE IN THE GAME.

Quote
R)You just totally contradicted yourself there. True legendaries might not help you end the game instantly(lol @ insta win item) however they usually tip the scales because they are heavy hitting and are usually hard to avoid due to large AoE. It gives the person with a pokeball an unfair advantage with no balancing of power to the player who didn't get the pokeball.

I didn't contradict myself at all. I merely stated, he got lucky, and was able to utilize that luck to win. Here's something people don't understand about "balance". There is never 100% balance. Nothing is ever perfect, and that's what makes games fun. If everything was perfectly equal, you would never win against someone better than you. You would never lose to someone worse than you. That's what pure balance means. It's a perfect judgment of skill. I will use this as it is MY FAVORITE REFERENCE IN THE WORLD.

Was it unfair when Derice and Yul Brenner got tripped by Junior when they were trying to qualify for the olympics?

WAS IT FAIR WHEN THEIR BOBSLED BROKE APART, WHEN THEY WERE RUSHING THROUGH THE TUBES, POSSIBLY WELL ENOUGH TO WIN A GOLD MEDAL?

Did the olympics people let Derice and Yul Brenner rerun the qualifying run? Everyone knows that Derice was the fastest man in Jamaica. Just like everyone knew Sanka was the best Pushcar driver in ALL OF JAMAICA.

Did the olympic people let them redo their run on the ice? NOPE

Random factors are always there. Smash was meant to be played with items. You're no longer playing smash how it was meant to be played by turning them off. This is the hardest thing for smash players to get, and how Smash players differ from all other fighting game players. They don't seem to accept "this is how the game was meant to be played" and want to turn it into "this is how we SHOULD play this game".

QuoteR)I beg to differ, if a match was very even, and someone was at high percent(that usually happens in smash games doesn't it) and say they get a heart, or even a 50% pumpkin thing, it could heal them to a % which is below kill range. That basically means a second chance, FOR FREE. There is nothing to compensate the player that didn't get the heal, therefore putting him at an unfair advantage for NO REASON AT ALL.

It's not for free at all. They had to 1. get the item, and 2 utilize their second chance. You're saying there should always be compensation in a fighting game? I got hit by a super, where is my compensation. How come my opponent doesn't lose life? He guessed right in a 50/50 situation, where's my compensation? Sorry, you don't deserve any. It's not my fault that the item landed closer to him, and you failed to prevent him from picking it up.

QuoteR)You can say items add to strategy. You can practice the art of grabbing items all day, but you will never be able to stop your opponent from grabbing the item if it is too far away from you, or say you are off the edge and an item appears(sucks for you doesn't it). You can learn the ways items work and how to avoid them as best as possible, BUT there are just somethings you just CAN'T avoid, examples could be the legendary pokemon(large area of effect, high damage), final smashes(some affect the whole map and are impossible to dodge, many others are one hit KO not to mention the smash ball floats around at random). Some items are impossible counter, items(again) like final smashes(heh good luck countering those), bomb-omb spawns on top of you, legendary/normal pokemon, assist trophies(good luck countering 2 flying ninjas that you can't get rid of), nearly any item actually. I think YOU don't realize what the true nature of smash is, run-away does not even begin to describe the amount of mindgaming involved(go visit smashboards.com, it will open your eyes). Not all characters can run under the map to avoid attacks, and sometimes you just can't get away in time(UNAVOIDABLE) so that is not a valid argument just because a handful of characters can stall.

Bull... all items are counterable/avoidable. Just because you can't, and just because it is difficult doesn't make it impossible. The smash ball is free game. It's your fault for letting your opponent get it. You are too far from an item so your enemy pics it up? That's your fault for running away from him. That's part of strategy. Staying closer to your opponent to avoid this. I've already covered this though.

QuoteIf this is TL;DR for you basically I said "no items plz". Also JTchinoy would we be considering a possible ban on Metaknight? There have been quite a few discussions of it on smashboards and even a stickied thread with 400+ replies http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057 (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057) There's also a poll here>>http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200718 (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200718).

Looking forward to some good Smash games at Fanime.

See this is hillarious too. Ban METAKNIGHT, he's top tier! Meta Knight isn't broken in anyway. He's a good character, but he's not godly. This is just whining because people don't want to try. We should ban Chun and Yun from 3S. Should ban O.Sagat/Claw from ST. We should ban Sagat/Cammy/A-groove/Roll Cancelling from CvS2.

Instead of whining that something is too good, figure out how to beat it. I've played low-tier characters in almost every game, BY CHANCE. And I don't whine about it. I've beaten V-Akumas in A3 with V-Mika. I've beaten MSP players with Ken/Sak/Akuma. I've beaten tons of Chuns/Yun/Ken players with Alex. And guess what in all of those cases, I had a HUUUUUUUUUUGE disadvantage for no reason, just because the character I play isn't top tier.

WHERE'S MY COMPENSATION?

I did, and to say picking up items is like charging a power meter is no comparison. You can't choose when an item appears or who gets the item most of the time. You have no way to predict when items appear. However you can control when you hit the opponent when using a powerbar. Really don't even compare the two.

You can't just say "you gotta learn how to get his life back down", because that's saying "learn to play the game" because the game is all about getting life bars down. Look this matters most at endgame play, when most top level players(either in a pro tourney or just your casual tourney) should probably be of equal skill, it is really hard to just "be better" than someone that's equal to your skill level. Top level players don't just miraculously beat everyone else because they learn how to make a comeback. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN PRACTICE MAKING A COMEBACK AFTER SOMEONE GETS A HEAL BECAUSE THE GAME CONTINUES LIKE BEFORE THE HEAL. You can't just instantly up your skill level after he gets a heal, if you were already that good then why haven't you beaten him hands down in the first place? Between close matches, heals can really screw up the game for someone.

Look I know you can dodge Shiek's FS on reaction, but that applies to everything else(and duh it's in a line so you can guess where it'll be shot but that doesn't mean you can avoid it for certain). The point I was making wasn't that it was impossible to dodge, it's just that you have WAY LESS OF A CHANCE to dodge it because it is so dang fast as opposed to, say, Samus's charged shot or Lucario's.

Either way I hope JTchinoy comes here and makes a conclusion about items.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
I did, and to say picking up items is like charging a power meter is no comparison. You can't choose when an item appears or who gets the item most of the time. You have no way to predict when items appear. However you can control when you hit the opponent when using a powerbar. Really don't even compare the two.

You can't just say "you gotta learn how to get his life back down", because that's saying "learn to play the game" because the game is all about getting life bars down. Look this matters most at endgame play, when most top level players(either in a pro tourney or just your casual tourney) should probably be of equal skill, it is really hard to just "be better" than someone that's equal to your skill level. Top level players don't just miraculously beat everyone else because they learn how to make a comeback. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN PRACTICE MAKING A COMEBACK AFTER SOMEONE GETS A HEAL BECAUSE THE GAME CONTINUES LIKE BEFORE THE HEAL. You can't just instantly up your skill level after he gets a heal, if you were already that good then why haven't you beaten him hands down in the first place? Between close matches, heals can really screw up the game for someone.

Look I know you can dodge Shiek's FS on reaction, but that applies to everything else(and duh it's in a line so you can guess where it'll be shot but that doesn't mean you can avoid it for certain). The point I was making wasn't that it was impossible to dodge, it's just that you have WAY LESS OF A CHANCE to dodge it because it is so dang fast as opposed to, say, Samus's charged shot or Lucario's.

Either way I hope JTchinoy comes here and makes a conclusion about items.

Yes there is. It's called having clutch. That's what skill is.

As for the rest. Now you're comparing TIERS of characters. Some moves are good, some are crappy. But guess what, it's your job to learn to avoid things and to cope. The only reason to *BAN* something is if it breaks the game. If something is so ridiculous that it breaks the game. Items DO NOT do this in any way. All you have said is that "Items MIGHT help someone win". It is in no way a guarantee. It is in no way definite. Playing Chun in 3S over Alex MIGHT help me with more. But guess what, I'm not going to say it's broken. It's your job as a player to deal with what is thrown at you. Urien has unblockables in 3S. Banning unblockables isn't the way to deal with this... learning how not to get put into a situation where he can use it is the viable way to go.

As I said. I don't like Smash players for this reason. They don't want to learn and expand, they want to assume that their rules and guidelines are absolute. That anything outside of that, HAS to be banned.

PyronIkari your posts are so large I can't respond to it all, but I'll give some main points as a last shot. After that I'll just stop because we won't come to a conclusion without JTchinoy. Please don't make a generalization of Smash players out there and lump me in with them as being narrowminded, if I was I wouldn't even be reading your posts and bother responding to them would I. I'm not bitching, or whining for that matter, just stating my points let's keep this argument clean.

Here are my points:
1) Items are random(PyronIkari you seem to not acknowledge that some items are unstoppable, remember the bomb-omb spawn over head? You can't dodge it if it's RIGHT ON YOU, not even if you shield or spot dodge or air dodge). And if you tell me "why were you in position to get hit by a bomb-omb spawning on top of you in the first place, you could've prevented it by not being there", then tell me, how am I supposed to know where they spawn? At least in a fighting game I know which direction the other character's combo is coming from.

2) Items add a luck factor. Here's a simple one, do you get combos just by randomly having your power meter suddenly filled up?(as in nobody hits you, you hit nobody but your powermeter instantly becomes full). That's like saying items are like combos because items give you extra power for no work at all(I wouldn't call an item popping up right next to you because your opponent hit you in that direction and the item just happened to spawn next to where you land "fighting for the item", it's just plain luck). Would you say combos have a luck factor?(and by that I don't mean you got lucky hitting your opponent so your power meter filled up a little, I mean hitting him once and filling your meter from empty to full in an instant).

3) Just because they're in the game doesn't mean you have to make use of it. Items/Smash Bros in general was meant to be a party feature/game and that's how I first played it. That's the way items are supposed to be used, to generate a fun/random factor into the game. It's the competitive community that ruled it out because as you know "tourneys are serious business D:<" lololol. Look if whatever is in a game is meant to be used, then shouldn't we all learn to play with all the characters, use every single one of them, learn to play with all the modes, giant, small, invisible, curry, light gravity, heavy gravity, falcon punch only mode? After all they are in the game, we should make use of it because that's how the creators wanted us to play it.

3) Why are you comparing Brawl to other Fighting games, there is no fighting game out there that is even close to it. Where is the power meter in smash? Where is the chip damage? Apples to Oranges


4) Owari, maybe I'll add more if you guys respond, but it honestly doesn't matter.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 09:12:54 PM
Here are my points:
1) Items are random(PyronIkari you seem to not acknowledge that some items are unstoppable, remember the bomb-omb spawn over head? You can't dodge it if it's RIGHT ON YOU, not even if you shield or spot dodge or air dodge). And if you tell me "why were you in position to get hit by a bomb-omb spawning on top of you in the first place, you could've prevented it by not being there", then tell me, how am I supposed to know where they spawn? At least in a fighting game I know which direction the other character's combo is coming from.

This is bull. You have a good 3 seconds before the first impact frames appear, you can easily dodge as long as you're paying attention. That's part of it. You see an item spawn, do you stand there and pick up the item or dodge assuming it's a bomb. HEY ISN'T THAT PART OF STRATEGY?

Quote2) Items add a luck factor. Here's a simple one, do you get combos just by randomly having your power meter suddenly filled up?(as in nobody hits you, you hit nobody but your powermeter instantly becomes full). That's like saying items are like combos because items give you extra power for no work at all(I wouldn't call an item popping up right next to you because your opponent hit you in that direction and the item just happened to spawn next to where you land "fighting for the item", it's just plain luck). Would you say combos have a luck factor?(and by that I don't mean you got lucky hitting your opponent so your power meter filled up a little, I mean hitting him once and filling your meter from empty to full in an instant).

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww And this is where your lack of knowledge shines. You don't need to hit anyone to build meter. You can whiff attacks. It's not instant, but it builds. Now as I said. the point is, if you're not putting pressure on your opponent, it means you're allowing him to move freely. Letting your opponent build meter is the same idea as letting your opponent pick up items on his discretion(whether or not it appears near him or not). You're not forcing him to not pick up the item. Therefore you are at fault for allowing him to.

Some combos do have a luck factor whether or not they'll hit. Makoto's SA2 will miss at a certain range for no reason against certain characters. The luck of standing in a specific place. Oh wait... isn't that what you're claiming for items? Luck? Standing in a specific place means you get an advantage or disadvantage? Oh boo hoo, that's the same as Makoto does. She loses a match because the opponent HAPPENED to get pushed back the perfect amount to be in a position where her SA2 will MISS FOR NO REASON AT ALL. Damn, we should ban standing in that position then.

Quote3) Why are you comparing Brawl to other Fighting games, there is no fighting game out there that is even close to it. Where is the power meter in smash? Where is the chip damage? Apples to Oranges... ... Because it's a fighting game and the idea is the same. Where is the chip damage in Tekken? Where is the power meters in VF?

Good job though at trying to dodge the subject of you not knowing anything about "fighting games" in general by trying to claim that the comparison isn't there.

lol, time to throw in the towel, you haven't countered my points exactly but you still keep going. No personal offense meant to you, but you were throwing a lot of personal insults at me.

P.S. I edited my earlier post and added one more point.

P.S.S. "Because it's a fighting game and the idea is the same. Where is the chip damage in Tekken? Where is the power meters in VF?
Good job though at trying to dodge the subject of you not knowing anything about "fighting games" in general by trying to claim that the comparison isn't there." The only thing Brawl has in common with the fighting games you mentioned is that characters hit each other(like a fight). Other than that in no other fighting game do you see the objective of "KNOCK HIM OFF THE MAP, TOP BOTTOM LEFT AND RIGHT(not even soul calibur, where you can only fall down)" or items, there's Nintendo innovation for you. Brawl is not your generic fighting game and should not be compared to them.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
lol, time to throw in the towel, you haven't countered my points exactly but you still keep going. No personal offense meant to you, but you were throwing a lot of personal insults at me.

P.S. I edited my earlier post and added one more point.

Uhm... You can *believe* I didn't counter any of your points if you'd like. But what it comes down to is what I stated in the first place.

Smash players whining about something because they don't want to accept it as part of the game. Smash players in general have a high level of elitism within their community and act as if they know more about the game than anyone can possibly understand... even Nintendo themselves. If it were up to Smash players, the game wouldn't have items at all, half the stages wouldn't be there because they're "unbalanced" and characters would be banned.

As I said... most communities ban something for being broken. Smash players ban something because "they don't like it".

Then they argue that they weren't disproven. I proved you wrong about bobombs being undodgable. There's approximately 1.5 seconds for the item to spawn into formation, and another 1 second to drop down onto a player. within 2.5 seconds, if you aren't gone from there and you get hit, that's the players fault, and is hardly "undodgable". It's undodgable if you try to react AFTER you see that it's a bomb, but that's about it. 2.5 Seconds... is a lot of time considering that some mixups are a difference of 5 frames(which is roughly an 1/8th of a second).

I disproved to you that items are game breaking because every item in the game can be avoided, just like every final smash can be avoided. There is just a level of difficulty and skill needed to do so.

So please tell me again how I did not disprove anything you said?

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
time to throw in the towel

As I said... most communities ban something for being broken. Smash players ban something because "they don't like it".
Good point, I never thought about it that way, but that's the way I'm used to playing and that's how regular competitive smash is played. That's why I was suggesting no items should be used. Of course this all depends on what the nature of this Brawl tournament is, casual, competitive, or wanting to practice a new format of competitive play which involves items. As I said before, it doesn't matter what you, or I say, it's up to chinoy.

Please stop calling me narrowminded or otherwise insulting my intelligence. I accept your arguments, there. It's basically saying you win. lol.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 09:52:30 PM

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
time to throw in the towel

As I said... most communities ban something for being broken. Smash players ban something because "they don't like it".
Good point, I never thought about it that way, but that's the way I'm used to playing and that's how regular competitive smash is played. That's why I was suggesting no items should be used. Of course this all depends on what the nature of this Brawl tournament is, casual, competitive, or wanting to practice a new format of competitive play which involves items. As I said before, it doesn't matter what you, or I say, it's up to chinoy.

Please stop calling me narrowminded or otherwise insulting my intelligence. I accept your arguments, there. It's basically saying you win. lol.

We're the people that influence JT, because he's a useless hack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whK6CxaRE6E for the lulz

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
P.S.S. "Because it's a fighting game and the idea is the same. Where is the chip damage in Tekken? Where is the power meters in VF?
Good job though at trying to dodge the subject of you not knowing anything about "fighting games" in general by trying to claim that the comparison isn't there." The only thing Brawl has in common with the fighting games you mentioned is that characters hit each other(like a fight). Other than that in no other fighting game do you see the objective of "KNOCK HIM OFF THE MAP, TOP BOTTOM LEFT AND RIGHT(not even soul calibur, where you can only fall down)" or items, there's Nintendo innovation for you. Brawl is not your generic fighting game and should not be compared to them.

Oooookay, Brawl is a fighting game and has the basics of a fighting game. Zoning, poking, rushdown, turtling, runaway. Obviously, there's no game that has the "knock them off different directions other than horizontally." I'll give you that as an original thing Brawl used (but Fatal Fury series had the knock off stage feature first, although was not the only way to KO). And there's no such thing as a generic fighting game, that statement totally shows that you are ignorant, and uneducated in fighting games. And items, sorry Samurai Showdown 1+2 (what PyronIkari stated earlier...) had items.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 10:22:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whK6CxaRE6E for the lulz

still had enough time to roll-dodge.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 10:22:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whK6CxaRE6E for the lulz

All that video shows me is exactly what I said. He easily had time to dodge, but he did what he shouldn't have... *assumed he won*. He probably got the hit and was like "oh I won" and stopped paying attention or caring. That's his fault... not the items.

Hey, hey what's with the hostile atitudes, I already admitted defeat. Notice caption next to the video was "for the lulz" just saying it was a funny thing. And guys I already said I don't really know much about other fighting games, not because I'm ignorant, but because fighting games aren't really my cup of tea. I play Smash Bros because it has party/social elements to it as well as competitive in one ball(first time was at a 2nd grade birthday party). I also play MMORPGs, FPSs, etc.

Lol this is also a really late statement but you guys totally misinterpreted me when I was talking about the ban on MetaKnight. Please read my wording carefully "Also JTchinoy would we be considering a possible ban on Metaknight? There have been quite a few discussions of it on smashboards and even a stickied thread with 400+ replies http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057 There's also a poll here>>http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200718." It was a question, and I wasn't saying: "OMG PLZ BAN METAKNIGHT HE'S TOO IMBA". I was just wondering if Metaknight would be banned since some places have banned him(although I highly doubt that he will be banned from all tourneys anytime soon).

On a side note, notice Lucario was taunting after Luigi was sky high. Don't tell me you guys never taunt after you've won a close match. I would just feel a little pissed off though that a close match ending in sudden death, all the hard effort to get that last hit was just wasted by one moment of map generated defeat. It wasn't like a skillful move on Luigi's part, just a map generated thing, I guess you'd get used to it if you were playing with items. Haha, sh*t happens. Either way I found it hilarious.

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 08:46:43 PM


Either way I hope JTchinoy comes here and makes a conclusion about items.

I'll be honest with you.  Not to burst your bubble nor anyone elses, I don't care at the moment whos point is more valid.  I was actually about to post "row row row your boat" until I saw you wanted my conclusion.  I stated before and I'll state again that I'm on the fence and sitting here for a good while until I decide whether or not Fanime should be competitive or fun.  I am pretty damn sure that fun = 1v1 item tourney and 1v1v1v1 final smash only brawl.  If I feel that competitive is in the best interest of Fanime, which I'm having a lot of trouble justifying at the moment since Fanime = fun, I'll come back to read over everything and consult smashboards/evo/srk/the gaming staff.  Hell maybe I'll just throw 1 competitive and 1 fun tournament.  We'll see.

The funniest shit about this thread is that Mikey is defending brawl as a fighting game.  I figured he'd say "Brawl isn't a fighting game, it's a party/brawl game. /discussion"

^^^lol I totally called that(hope this post doesn't count as a junk post)

Quote from: PyronIkari on October 27, 2008, 09:54:04 PM

We're the people that influence JT, because he's a useless hack.

That's cool Mikey.  I love you too.  Yes homo.

Pssst JTchinoy I sent you a PM :-X

duly noted

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 27, 2008, 11:45:10 PM

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 08:46:43 PM


Either way I hope JTchinoy comes here and makes a conclusion about items.

I'll be honest with you.  Not to burst your bubble nor anyone elses, I don't care at the moment whos point is more valid.  I was actually about to post "row row row your boat" until I saw you wanted my conclusion.  I stated before and I'll state again that I'm on the fence and sitting here for a good while until I decide whether or not Fanime should be competitive or fun.  I am pretty damn sure that fun = 1v1 item tourney and 1v1v1v1 final smash only brawl.  If I feel that competitive is in the best interest of Fanime, which I'm having a lot of trouble justifying at the moment since Fanime = fun, I'll come back to read over everything and consult smashboards/evo/srk/the gaming staff.  Hell maybe I'll just throw 1 competitive and 1 fun tournament.  We'll see.

The funniest shit about this thread is that Mikey is defending brawl as a fighting game.  I figured he'd say "Brawl isn't a fighting game, it's a party/brawl game. /discussion"

Competitive is fun.

Kikkoman, I applaud you for your efforts, very nice try, but ignorance in numbers conquers all.

Also, did you ever go the melee bi-weeklys?

<- Captain Funch

This thread makes me hate people.

Quote from: Blue Impulse on October 30, 2008, 07:49:59 PM

Quote from: JTchinoy on October 27, 2008, 11:45:10 PM

Quote from: Kikkoman on October 27, 2008, 08:46:43 PM


Either way I hope JTchinoy comes here and makes a conclusion about items.

I'll be honest with you.  Not to burst your bubble nor anyone elses, I don't care at the moment whos point is more valid.  I was actually about to post "row row row your boat" until I saw you wanted my conclusion.  I stated before and I'll state again that I'm on the fence and sitting here for a good while until I decide whether or not Fanime should be competitive or fun.  I am pretty damn sure that fun = 1v1 item tourney and 1v1v1v1 final smash only brawl.  If I feel that competitive is in the best interest of Fanime, which I'm having a lot of trouble justifying at the moment since Fanime = fun, I'll come back to read over everything and consult smashboards/evo/srk/the gaming staff.  Hell maybe I'll just throw 1 competitive and 1 fun tournament.  We'll see.

The funniest shit about this thread is that Mikey is defending brawl as a fighting game.  I figured he'd say "Brawl isn't a fighting game, it's a party/brawl game. /discussion"

Competitive is fun.

Kikkoman, I applaud you for your efforts, very nice try, but ignorance in numbers conquers all.

Also, did you ever go the melee bi-weeklys?

<- Captain Funch

Okay, I'm tired of being nice, and I'm in a really crappy mood.

You're the one who is ignorant, and even if I didn't call you that, insulting ME as a person who is trying to actually talk and come up with a debate about this stuff, but I'm getting nothing to work with except LOL ITEMS SUCK YOU'RE IGNORANT. Calling me and Mikey and people against your own ideas and how Brawl should be ran ignorant is so dumb, it's totally illogical. Since JT is probablly running these tourneys, and he's given a response of what he's going to do, this thread is locked until further notice, or when JT PMs me.