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Long

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Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« on: February 08, 2009, 10:44:53 PM »

Seems like the guys get good service at the Maid Cafe, but doesn't that leave out a significant demographic? Our fangirls aren't getting any service! Maybe we should open up a Host Club. The bar will serve root beer. ;B

Possible? Impossible? Comments, questions?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 09:13:59 AM by Long »
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PyronIkari

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Re: Host Club?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 10:54:10 PM »

I really wish people would learn what a host club was before suggesting it. A host club, is a male version of a hostess bar. A hostess bar is a bar where female hostesses are assigned to be your partner for the night. You pay for drinks for yourself and the girl and she drinks, flirts, and does all kinds of things with you.

A host bar is quite similar. Except it's for females and a male host.

The entire point is that, these are for lonely people to pretend they have a boyfriend/girlfriend that they can go out to a bar with, drink flirt, maybe get a massage, hold hands, maybe even kiss.

In other words, you pay someone to pretend to be your significant other.

You know, I really liked Ouran, but I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the false impression that it gives to people.

Now, a BUTLER CAFE is understandable to ask for. That would be a male form of a Maid Cafe.
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Re: Host Club?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2009, 10:55:06 PM »

Possible? Impossible? Comments, questions?

Left out "illegal".

Though, just to clarify... besides the point that a host club would be impossible, maid cafes (while normally catered towards men) are for both genders and sexes. Both go to the maid cafe for the same general novelty-- to be served in a cafe by cute girls in maid uniforms, playing the role as a servant for their masters and mistresses. We refer and cater to both, referring to men as "Goshujinsama" and women as "Ojousama". It isn't so much the case where it's "one is for girls and one is for boys"-- they're just completely different things. People tend to misunderstand what a host club actually is, mostly from watching unrealistic anime series.

Just to add, it isn't that I'd be concerned of the traffic and loss of business for the cafe, competing with a host club, but it is impractical to run both a maid cafe and a host club. As they are completely different things, it'd take a lot of unnecessary time and effort to try to provide both. Training maids properly, managing the volunteers, and having the con provide what we need to make the maid cafe, a maid cafe, is a lot-- and having a host club would mean a whole other set of those things.

Also expanding on the fact that it is... illegal, and impossible to do in the states without being shady or having enough restrictions to make the host club not a host club, the idea just wouldn't pass.
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Long

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Re: Host Club?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 08:47:14 AM »

Hm. In that case, that idea is out. But what about just a bar. With bartenders? Have you read the manga Bartender? I think it'd be really fun to do something like that. Except no alcoholic drinks of course. Just soda, water, and our specialty: ROOT BEER! (If you can't tell I'm a huge root beer fan. xD )

The guys (or girls) could dress like this:

While I understand that it would be difficult for the con to provide enough resources for both events, I'm pretty sure there could definitely be a way to minimize cost for the bar so that it could be run specifically just by a few people on a pretty low budget. By fans, for fans right?

It'd be two different plays on a similar idea. Fans could choose to go either to the Maid Cafe or the Bar depending on their preference for the day. The maid cafe obviously has its perks and advantages. You have pretty girls in elegant uniforms serving drinks like tea and cookies and other more elegant things. The bar would be a contrast. Maybe just peanuts and like I said, those sodas. And a nice comfy place for people to hang out. While the maid cafe is for guys and girls, it's not always someone's preference. Sometimes they want to see nicely dressed guys giving them drinks and just chatting it up at the bar. Or maybe they'd just want rootbeer. xD

I do of course understand that using an actual bar would be out of the question. But it wouldn't be too difficult of course to just set up a few tables and make them look similar to a bar. All we'd need is floor space. Training and such can be done independently by us. We might even be able to totally fund it ourselves, and if the idea flies well, then Fanime could make it an official thing the next year around, and help with the funding.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 08:55:45 AM by Long »
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ewu

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 09:47:05 AM »

if it involves 1) food/drink sales 2)convention space or 3) room setup, it must involve Fanime. The convention center has strict rules w/ regards to serving, Fanime has the whole center booked, and b/c the center is a union house tables and chairs are contracted through our decorator....for a simple explanation, the con must put on this event.

Although if you want to do it yourself through special agreements with the center and Fanime, it will most likely run at least $1000 or more.
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 12:28:38 PM »

Besides all the logistics around setting it up, I'm not sure I understand how Fanime would be a good venue for it. How would this be different from going to a regular bar (for the 21+ crowd)? Aren't there a bunch around the convention center? Or are you trying to give the underage crowd a taste of what it's like? (And if they're young ones with parents, would the parents really want them hanging out in a bar-like atmosphere?)  Just not sure where the appeal would be. Except root beer of course. I love root beer, too.
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PyronIkari

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Re: Host Club?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 12:42:21 PM »

Words here

Besides what Eric already covered about issues with the con center and selling anything about food or drink, I have another thing to add.

I'm fairly certain you are not over 21 nor have you ever been to a real bar like this(not like a sports bar but an old fashioned bar). You really can't replicate the mood or feelings you get, and you'd only need 1-2 people to do the job. The idea though isn't that the person serves you drinks. It's hard to explain this to someone that has never really gone to bars like this, but spirits do have their own personality. And within these spirits conversations arise. Drinking a glass of whisky while talking about something to the bartender. That's a different mood than taking a tequila shooter with a friend with the bartender in company. This is also a different mood than drinking a pint of beer.

It loses meaning if it's not alcohol to be honest, and it loses more meaning if there's more than a small handful people there. A nice quiet hole for people to crawl into and forget their worries. And a therapist behind the counter.
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Long

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2009, 01:33:30 PM »

Okay, first to PyronIkari: I am aware that this "Bar" would never be exactly the same as a regular bar. However it would have some similarities. As a bar it would only be open at night. Perhaps even late night, preferably somewhere near the dance. The crowd would be small, or that's what I project.

The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place. We could of course have mixed drinks, but they would be non-alcoholic, like Shirley Temples or the like. As long as there's a gathering place, where people can sit quietly (or in some cases not-so-quietly) over a drink and just rest from dancing and simply chatting with each other or the bartender, then there would be a certain ambiance that is definitely worth having in my opinion.

By the way, I am not 21, but I have been to a number of old fashioned bars before. Just never allowed to drink there. :P ((And I can kind of tell that you've read the "Bartender" Manga. xD ))

To Codex: This bar would provide to its customers a crowd and servers that would be more understanding of their interests. Also it would be in very close vicinity, easy for people to take a rest, take a load off their feet, and converse about their day at the con. I do not know of many under 21 bars around the convention centers anyway, and our congoers are likely to get shunned there.

Parents of customers would either have to be understanding, or simply disallow their children from attending the bar. It's not that complicated really. If their parents don't wish them to attend the bar, then they simply won't be served. We don't have to serve everyone.

To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 01:41:35 PM by Long »
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ewu

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 01:53:32 PM »

This seems like a tough proposition. Basically it would entail full involvement of the con and you as the staffer in charge of it. I am not too sure the benefits or interest would be enough to warrant the spending of Fanime's resources on this, but regardless I will pitch the idea to the appropriate parties and you will get a response soon enough.
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2009, 02:06:30 PM »

The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place.

To be honest, I was thinking... "Did I read this sentence right?" and to my dismay, I did.

But just as an fiy, Eric is part of Head staff and is aware of what doing something like this would entail for the con, and it's rather impractical, to put it simply.
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PyronIkari

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2009, 02:17:33 PM »

Okay, first to PyronIkari: I am aware that this "Bar" would never be exactly the same as a regular bar. However it would have some similarities. As a bar it would only be open at night. Perhaps even late night, preferably somewhere near the dance. The crowd would be small, or that's what I project.
Then you're looking at virtually no business to warrant something that will cost thousands of dollars. A sink that will only cater to maybe 15-20 people. Let's overcharge the hell out of them, and charge 5$ a drink. That's 100$ at best. 4 months of work, thousands of dollars, to get a 100$ back and to make 20 people happy, that won't really appreciate what it is. You're basically projecting a "dance club bar", which is incredibly different than the bar described in the comic.

Quote
The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place. We could of course have mixed drinks, but they would be non-alcoholic, like Shirley Temples or the like. As long as there's a gathering place, where people can sit quietly (or in some cases not-so-quietly) over a drink and just rest from dancing and simply chatting with each other or the bartender, then there would be a certain ambiance that is definitely worth having in my opinion.
I don't even understand the first sentence in this. I've read it about 10 times now and trying to let it sink in. And it just further pushes to me, that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. A spirit is a word described to use the alcohol, its origins, and its method of creation. Each drink contains a personality, and a story and the spirit of the drink is what the drink embodies. I've been drinking for about 11 years now, and I grew up with a brother who really appreciates alcohols and what they are. I've gone to bars with him for a long time and I still go to bars to relax and think occasionally. You cannot mimic or even simulate what a spirit represents. Then you say "Fanime has a spirit all on its own"... what does this have anything to do with the spirits of the bar? Bars aren't fun. They're not meant to be "fun". They're meant to be escapes of solitude. To release stress, to think, and to gather yourself. The entire environment of the bar goes against what you say "the spirit of fanime" is. Not to mention... there is a bar in the hotel. One that I have been to, and has a nice ambiance to. The bartender isn't very good the times I've gone, but the purpose is served.

Quote
By the way, I am not 21, but I have been to a number of old fashioned bars before. Just never allowed to drink there. :P ((And I can kind of tell that you've read the "Bartender" Manga. xD ))
Actually no, I did not read it. Going to a bar doesn't mean knowing what a bar is like. It's like stating "I've been to Disneyland, I didn't ride anything, I didn't see any shows, or play any games, but I've been, so I know what Disneyland is like."

Quote
To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.

Funded by the people who are planning? There's lots of issues with that. You're privately funding the event under fanime which has legal issues.

Money wise, you don't seem to understand this. The con just can't do whatever it wants and it has to go through the appropriate channels. Unions, food service, the convention center etc. There's hundreds of limitations, and forced issues that you have to leap through. This costs thousands of dollars to do. So unless you are willing to throw down a few thousand dollars, and get 0 back in return, this will not happen.

Edit
I thought I made this clear, but I guess I didn't. The entire point of the bar is the environment, the spirits, and the escape. Something you can't do in this situation for numerous reasons.
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Tony

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2009, 02:23:39 PM »

I admit that logistically we could do this. But, I think you lose all of the magic - minus the "guys dressed nicely" - if you did it through FanimeCon (and consequently through the convention center). For me, then, it's not a question of "how" but "why", when you lose a major component like that.

I know - Maid Cafe isn't exactly true to its atmosphere, either - but there's more to Maid Cafe than the appearance (and Jun is working hard on developing those other pieces). So, it can work despite it being part of FanimeCon and the SJCC.

There's more to it, but I hope you get the gist.
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PyronIkari

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2009, 02:37:50 PM »

I admit that logistically we could do this. But, I think you lose all of the magic - minus the "guys dressed nicely" - if you did it through FanimeCon (and consequently through the convention center). For me, then, it's not a question of "how" but "why", when you lose a major component like that.

I know - Maid Cafe isn't exactly true to its atmosphere, either - but there's more to Maid Cafe than the appearance (and Jun is working hard on developing those other pieces). So, it can work despite it being part of FanimeCon and the SJCC.

There's more to it, but I hope you get the gist.

The issue with the Maid Cafe, is that there is an atmosphere, but the atmosphere itself isn't so important over the actions of the maid's themselves. Where as with a bar... the atmosphere is everything.
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2009, 02:42:11 PM »

I admit that logistically we could do this. But, I think you lose all of the magic - minus the "guys dressed nicely" - if you did it through FanimeCon (and consequently through the convention center). For me, then, it's not a question of "how" but "why", when you lose a major component like that.

I know - Maid Cafe isn't exactly true to its atmosphere, either - but there's more to Maid Cafe than the appearance (and Jun is working hard on developing those other pieces). So, it can work despite it being part of FanimeCon and the SJCC.

There's more to it, but I hope you get the gist.

Logistically we put this where? Last time I checked, we're booked pretty good =P

On another note though, this would cost a bit. You'd be surprised how expensive everything is once it's been unionized.
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2009, 02:45:59 PM »

yay budgets! *dances*......
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2009, 02:47:36 PM »

yay budgets! *dances*......

Mine got cut a little, how about you =p?
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2009, 02:51:52 PM »


To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.

There's quite a lot of logistics and other concerns that will need to be hammered out. Like Tony said, it IS doable. But is it worth it? Is there a high demand for it? And what are you trying to accomplish?

Putting on something like that will require thousands of dollars and it's not something that is done without a lot of intensive thought. And lots of convincing.
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Long

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2009, 03:10:17 PM »

Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]
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Long

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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2009, 03:21:03 PM »

Okay, first to PyronIkari: I am aware that this "Bar" would never be exactly the same as a regular bar. However it would have some similarities. As a bar it would only be open at night. Perhaps even late night, preferably somewhere near the dance. The crowd would be small, or that's what I project.
Then you're looking at virtually no business to warrant something that will cost thousands of dollars. A sink that will only cater to maybe 15-20 people. Let's overcharge the hell out of them, and charge 5$ a drink. That's 100$ at best. 4 months of work, thousands of dollars, to get a 100$ back and to make 20 people happy, that won't really appreciate what it is. You're basically projecting a "dance club bar", which is incredibly different than the bar described in the comic.

Quote
The spirits of the alcohol that you refer to, would be absent of course, but to be honest, Fanime has a spirit all on its own, and we don't even need alcohol to bring out the fun and conversations at a serving place. We could of course have mixed drinks, but they would be non-alcoholic, like Shirley Temples or the like. As long as there's a gathering place, where people can sit quietly (or in some cases not-so-quietly) over a drink and just rest from dancing and simply chatting with each other or the bartender, then there would be a certain ambiance that is definitely worth having in my opinion.
I don't even understand the first sentence in this. I've read it about 10 times now and trying to let it sink in. And it just further pushes to me, that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. A spirit is a word described to use the alcohol, its origins, and its method of creation. Each drink contains a personality, and a story and the spirit of the drink is what the drink embodies. I've been drinking for about 11 years now, and I grew up with a brother who really appreciates alcohols and what they are. I've gone to bars with him for a long time and I still go to bars to relax and think occasionally. You cannot mimic or even simulate what a spirit represents. Then you say "Fanime has a spirit all on its own"... what does this have anything to do with the spirits of the bar? Bars aren't fun. They're not meant to be "fun". They're meant to be escapes of solitude. To release stress, to think, and to gather yourself. The entire environment of the bar goes against what you say "the spirit of fanime" is. Not to mention... there is a bar in the hotel. One that I have been to, and has a nice ambiance to. The bartender isn't very good the times I've gone, but the purpose is served.

Quote
By the way, I am not 21, but I have been to a number of old fashioned bars before. Just never allowed to drink there. :P ((And I can kind of tell that you've read the "Bartender" Manga. xD ))
Actually no, I did not read it. Going to a bar doesn't mean knowing what a bar is like. It's like stating "I've been to Disneyland, I didn't ride anything, I didn't see any shows, or play any games, but I've been, so I know what Disneyland is like."

Quote
To Eric: In either case, we would have had to obtain con permission and I was aware of that. But what I meant was that the event, though officially run by the con can be funded by the people who are planning it, and managed by them to a certain extent. The con should intervene or oversee where ever it is necessary. I don't quite understand the whole meaning of "put on by the con" but if it simply means to obtain permission, and perhaps even have con volunteers help out with the setup and safety, then it shouldn't be too complicated. However if it means more, then I am ignorant of that fact, and a bit more information would be appreciated.

Funded by the people who are planning? There's lots of issues with that. You're privately funding the event under fanime which has legal issues.

Money wise, you don't seem to understand this. The con just can't do whatever it wants and it has to go through the appropriate channels. Unions, food service, the convention center etc. There's hundreds of limitations, and forced issues that you have to leap through. This costs thousands of dollars to do. So unless you are willing to throw down a few thousand dollars, and get 0 back in return, this will not happen.

Edit
I thought I made this clear, but I guess I didn't. The entire point of the bar is the environment, the spirits, and the escape. Something you can't do in this situation for numerous reasons.
To be honest, what I got from your post is "I'm a hoity toity bar connoisseur, so I'm better than you."

I don't care how long you've been drinking alcohol, because that has absolutely nothing to do with this idea, seeing as we aren't even serving alcohol. Your idea of a bar may be simply to relieve stress, but that's not the general idea of all bars. There are many people who drink recreationally and don't just go to cry out their troubles and fill themselves with booze.

This is simply an idea to help provide a bit of relief and relaxation as well as a place to chat it up at the end of the con day. If you really don't like it, and you've already expressed your dislike of the idea that's fine, but it seems that you're trying to attack me personally, and trying to downgrade me, which is honestly just immature.

And I already understand that a bar is about atmosphere, which is specifically why I am pushing this idea. If I just wanted a drink joint I would have just suggested they put in another vending machine or something. =/
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Re: Bartenders? (Formerly Known as Host Club)
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2009, 03:28:07 PM »

Hm. If it is going to cost 1000 dollars or more, I agree, it shouldn't be done.

Hell, I don't think it should be done if it costs more than 500 dollars. Maybe even 300.

I don't quite see how it would cost more than 500 though, in any case. Drink budget would probably be around 200-300 dollars. Extra props, lighting (if it's done), anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. I don't see why it should cost any more than that. But this budget could be shot to hell if there were extra expenses like if we need to purchase a license to sell comestibles at the con.

You all are right, that the ambiance and atmosphere is one of the most important things in a bar. However that would probably be our biggest challenge. I think it could be done. I'm not certain though. It would take a lot of creativity.

Really, guys, I'm just putting the idea out there, and trying to figure out how it would work in the best manner possible. I'm not at all attached to the idea that we need this, and it's highly likely that if it's done at all, it probably won't be done this year. Just a suggestion that I think warrants some thinking over. =]

I'm guessing you're young. Really young. As you don't seem to realize that "materials" aren't the only cost of things. Realistically drinks would only cost like a 100$. Lighting would only cost 50$... IF Fanime was able to purchase the drinks themselves, the lights themselves, and setup everything themselves. Union fees. First they'd have to get permission from the convention which costs money. They'd have to clear the drinks and servers, which would go through the convention and that costs money. Then they'd have to get officials since they're serving drinks they'd have to get an official to okay, costs money... and more money, and more money.

The return would be incredibly small. There is really no interest in this. Everyone older than 21 would rather go to a real bar, where the prices will be generally the same, only we can get alcohol. The younger kids could just buy drinks from the vending machines which would be cheaper. The only thing would be the appeal. This would require getting 3-4 bartenders that are extremely charismatic and capable of holding conversations, and more importantly listening well. To sit there and pour drinks.

To be honest, I like people giving ideas, but I really wish people would REALLY THINK about what they're pushing, how it would work and actually be able to give a decent presentation on what they want to push. This is no different than your host club idea. You really haven't a clue what you're talking about, nor what you're really pushing. You're pushing an idea you don't know about, and you've shown it's evident that you don't know what you're talking about. You've shown you don't have real experience just an idea that "yeah this is important". Logistics aside(and logistics alone is reason to say no it should never happen), there is no appeal or reason to have a bar. There is a bar already in the hotel.

I was against the Maid Cafe, but that was due to capability on terms of those working. It was about knowledge and training. Now that Jun is heading it, I think it's fully capable. It won't be perfect but it serves all the main purposes it should. I disagreed with having a Maid Cafe, but I didn't say it was impossible to do decently, just not perfectly.

A bar cannot. You cannot mimic what a bar is nor what it represents in Fanime. It's the same as a host club. You can have one, but you will not have to meaning and point of it. With that gone, what you have is an empty shell. I don't care if it's perfect, I care that the point of what you're doing is carried out. The point of a bar is completely loss.

However, I do so much love replies like yours. Where you act like a hypocrite. You say that I'm attacking you, when I'm not. I'm merely pointing out you're ignorant, and you're pushing something through ignorance. However, you then retaliate by attacking me by saying you don't care about my experiences, or points. You even completely missed my point on what a bar was, and that makes me further believe you don't know what a bar like this is for.

You state that you don't care about the idea, but you seem adamant in trying to prove us wrong as if your idea is good.

Simply put, shut up for now, and come back when you can prove it's worth doing, show how you can mimic a bar's atmosphere and point... and maybe then something would really be worth listening to.
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