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ThatBlueDinosaurGuy

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2008, 11:56:31 PM »

I personally don't mind being glomped, hugged, or whatever, I'm all for it. Fanime is fun no matter what just as long as no one tries to pull a Man Faye I'm dandy.
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Lacunacraft

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2008, 12:16:01 AM »

I agree with Pyron completely on the glomping issue. pleas ask before you do it, I know I wouldn't do it without asking because I am six feet tall and roughly 240 pounds. I will maim someone if they are not prepared for it, especially if they are smaller than me.

As for the con ruining people's fun...Grow the fuck up people! You ruin the con by being stupid and that ruins the fun for other people at Fanimecon. Not everyone likes being glomped or taking part in other fandom activities. I have been going to Fanimecon for the past eight years and I can understand why the rules are being more clearly enforced. The convention is huge now and attendance is over 15,000 people now. This is a huge undertaking for an all volunteer organization and I deeply respect the staff for putting it on for us year after year.  They don't have to do this, but they do it because they want to do it. So at least respect the rules they set up for the con as they aren't restrictive at all and I have never had a problem with them.

P.S. Pyron, you remeber that random white guy who talked to you after the damn you internets panel saturday, well that is me.  I really hope damn you internets is back next year because it is probably one of the best panels at Fanimecon.
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Jun-Watarase

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2008, 12:20:06 AM »

I agree with Pyron completely on the glomping issue. pleas ask before you do it, I know I wouldn't do it without asking because I am six feet tall and roughly 240 pounds. I will maim someone if they are not prepared for it, especially if they are smaller than me.

As for the con ruining people's fun...Grow the fuck up people! You ruin the con by being stupid and that ruins the fun for other people at Fanimecon. Not everyone likes being glomped or taking part in other fandom activities. I have been going to Fanimecon for the past eight years and I can understand why the rules are being more clearly enforced. The convention is huge now and attendance is over 15,000 people now. This is a huge undertaking for an all volunteer organization and I deeply respect the staff for putting it on for us year after year.  They don't have to do this, but they do it because they want to do it. So at least respect the rules they set up for the con as they aren't restrictive at all and I have never had a problem with them.

P.S. Pyron, you remeber that random white guy who talked to you after the damn you internets panel saturday, well that is me.  I really hope damn you internets is back next year because it is probably one of the best panels at Fanimecon.

Lol, I don't think anyone disagreed with this in the entire thread. Everything else was just a joke. :P

Thanks for the support on the panel, though. Sorry we had to let you guys sit through that. o_0 Uh... After it ended, despite it sucking, we ended up getting a lot of support nonetheless, so it'll probably encourage a following year. Hope for the best.
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Nyxyin

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2008, 12:36:23 AM »

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
"Glomps" have no commercial value.  Also, the legal definition of "solicitation" deals explicitly with crimes or sex or money.  Glomps aren't sex, they're not crimes, and a sign saying "glomp me" doesn't ask for money.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/solicitation-lawyers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitation
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Tenba

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2008, 12:41:02 AM »

Yes, our SOS staff was nearly double of what we had last year =)
Awesome!
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Lacunacraft

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2008, 12:42:15 AM »

I agree with Pyron completely on the glomping issue. pleas ask before you do it, I know I wouldn't do it without asking because I am six feet tall and roughly 240 pounds. I will maim someone if they are not prepared for it, especially if they are smaller than me.

As for the con ruining people's fun...Grow the fuck up people! You ruin the con by being stupid and that ruins the fun for other people at Fanimecon. Not everyone likes being glomped or taking part in other fandom activities. I have been going to Fanimecon for the past eight years and I can understand why the rules are being more clearly enforced. The convention is huge now and attendance is over 15,000 people now. This is a huge undertaking for an all volunteer organization and I deeply respect the staff for putting it on for us year after year.  They don't have to do this, but they do it because they want to do it. So at least respect the rules they set up for the con as they aren't restrictive at all and I have never had a problem with them.

P.S. Pyron, you remeber that random white guy who talked to you after the damn you internets panel saturday, well that is me.  I really hope damn you internets is back next year because it is probably one of the best panels at Fanimecon.

Lol, I don't think anyone disagreed with this in the entire thread. Everything else was just a joke. :P

Thanks for the support on the panel, though. Sorry we had to let you guys sit through that. o_0 Uh... After it ended, despite it sucking, we ended up getting a lot of support nonetheless, so it'll probably encourage a following year. Hope for the best.

I was actually talking to the people who may be reading this and nerd raging over it because you know they are out there. I am really new to the forums, so who were you at the panel? there was like ten people with pyron on stage. I do know you were one of the girls, but i can't remeber which one, which is sad becuse what you cosplayed as is right in your signature '-_-.
Actually It wasn't too bad sitting through it because the on the spot stuff was kinda funny for a bit especially the watermelon and fried chicken.  
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Jun-Watarase

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2008, 01:20:59 AM »

Solicitation is the act of offering services/goods or trying to get services/goods.

A "glomp me" sign is sollicitation.
"Glomps" have no commercial value.  Also, the legal definition of "solicitation" deals explicitly with crimes or sex or money.  Glomps aren't sex, they're not crimes, and a sign saying "glomp me" doesn't ask for money.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/solicitation-lawyers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitation


Within Fanime, at least, glomping and hugs are considered solicitation. You've seen it become increasingly problematic, so "soliciting" is as blunt as it was described-- offering services and/or goods in any fashion Fanime's organization doesn't approve of. It disturbs the public-- it's just for Fanime to try to intervene and do something about it.

I was actually talking to the people who may be reading this and nerd raging over it because you know they are out there. I am really new to the forums, so who were you at the panel? there was like ten people with pyron on stage. I do know you were one of the girls, but i can't remeber which one, which is sad becuse what you cosplayed as is right in your signature '-_-.
Actually It wasn't too bad sitting through it because the on the spot stuff was kinda funny for a bit especially the watermelon and fried chicken. 

Ah, yes. They can raaaage all they want-- there's quite the history of people arguing back and forth pertaining this. People within conventions are generally socially-inept outcasts, most of the time. When they see people acting stupid, lacking tact, and dropping all social graces, they join in and promote it as a sign of freedom. At first, in moderation, it was okay. Once it became a problem, though, most weren't really happy with people stepping in and saying, "No, that's wrong." But after many upon many threads on similar topics, more and more people started agreeing once they could relate or understand the logical reasons as to why such behavior should be looked down upon.

I was the person cosplaying as Cirno (blue dress, wig, white wings) a.k.a. "ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg". It was disappointing to see the panel fall apart like the way it did, especially in such an ironic fashion. I'm glad that people still managed to have fun nonetheless. To be very honest, both Pyron and I are touched that we're getting so much support in trying better the next year. A lot of things related to our personal life got too much in the way for us to be able to plan the panel properly to have improvised with adequate material to work with available. There were a lot of great plans for this year, but it's kind of tough running an internet panel without internet. And yes, our African-American friend indulging himself in his native cuisine is quite entertaining-- he lacked a certain violet-colored beverage, though.

Thanks for the support, tons. Hope to see you next year. =)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 01:24:02 AM by Jun-Watarase »
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ININ

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2008, 10:42:49 AM »

Pyron, kudos to your first post.  Well said.  There was almost no drama as I walked around the convention during the late night hours.  Fanime'07 was terrible.  There are better activies to do instead of running around bored wearing meaningless signs.  (Late night stage zero programming such as Mario 64 speed run was a great idea.)

Regarding glomping, I'm flexible.  If the person asks for permission, then glomp away.

Not just Jun. There were a group of girls in the Thursday prereg badge pickup line that absolutely wouldn't stop groping each other.

I wonder if one of those girls glomped me and grabbed my butt in the dealer's room on Saturday.
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Lacunacraft

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2008, 01:15:58 PM »

I agree that having late night live programming on stage zero also probably helped alieveate the problem of people doing stupid shit. Plus having the snack stations open later was a great idea because no one wants to walk around downtown san jose at night just to get something to drink besides water.

One thing I did wish for is to have the people yelling "YOU LOST THE GAME" to shut the fuck up. I mean, come on it was never that funny to begin with. 
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FanFicGuru

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2008, 01:23:58 PM »

To 1st post: QFT.

In addition, I wish that minors who were staying in hotel rooms had more supervision. On my floor there were at least a couple rooms with teenagers up pretty much all night making a ton of noise. I almost went out there to shut them up but some older guy did it for me.

Seriously...people need to behave in hotel rooms. They just make the rest of us look like morons.
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FinalShadows

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2008, 01:27:12 PM »

Heh.. I never got that complaint. Then again my room was holding a yaoi/yuri marathon the last night :P
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2008, 01:57:59 PM »

I've never minded the glomping, just as long as they don't try to football tackle me when I'm not looking. lol That might hurt a lil bit.  ;D
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2008, 04:41:54 PM »

I'm going to just throw this out there. There's a line between keeping the peace and forcing order.

Sometime early in the convention we were on our way out to the patio, near the Maid Cafe. My friend had some cognac in a snifter (specialty glass) left over form visiting a few rooms; when we entered the convention center a female staffer said he couldn't bring alcohol in. That's totally fair, she had every right to, and it's a good rule; he said he thought the glass was empty. So he finished that last couple drops, then even went so far at to rinse it out and dry it in the bathroom. He came out and met us... and then the woman turned up again.

She demanded that we break the glass in front of her even though it was empty and we showed it to her, that, I believe, is crossing the line. We explained that it was our glass from homesies and that it was expensive (Bacarat crystal no less) and that we would not be breaking it. Before she could go on, we walked past her, down stairs, and out to the street. Another staffer (higher up I guess) came out and asked if we were the ones drinking wine in the convention center; we explained it and showed him the glass and he literally laughed at her, saying he would have done more than just calmly walk away if it were his glass that she had demanded be broken.

This is my own personal story, but playing off some other ones... someone said they had been walking down the line to see how long it was, and staff shoved them and told them to get to the end. Keeping lines in control and organized is important, but no staff should ever lay a finger on an attendee unless absolutely necessary. And if that's the case, they should be calling con ops to call the police.

Many of you might not have had jobs, but even McDonalds teaches you that if someone is breaking rules it is NOT your responsibility to take any more action than notify the people who should.

Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.
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Kaura117

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2008, 04:54:10 PM »

Or you could, yanno, demand that the staffer let you write down his/her badge info. If it works on uppity policemen, it works on mere staffers.
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Steve.Young

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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2008, 07:04:04 PM »

I'm going to just throw this out there. There's a line between keeping the peace and forcing order.

Sometime early in the convention we were on our way out to the patio, near the Maid Cafe. My friend had some cognac in a snifter (specialty glass) left over form visiting a few rooms; when we entered the convention center a female staffer said he couldn't bring alcohol in. That's totally fair, she had every right to, and it's a good rule; he said he thought the glass was empty. So he finished that last couple drops, then even went so far at to rinse it out and dry it in the bathroom. He came out and met us... and then the woman turned up again.

She demanded that we break the glass in front of her even though it was empty and we showed it to her, that, I believe, is crossing the line. We explained that it was our glass from homesies and that it was expensive (Bacarat crystal no less) and that we would not be breaking it. Before she could go on, we walked past her, down stairs, and out to the street. Another staffer (higher up I guess) came out and asked if we were the ones drinking wine in the convention center; we explained it and showed him the glass and he literally laughed at her, saying he would have done more than just calmly walk away if it were his glass that she had demanded be broken.

This is my own personal story, but playing off some other ones... someone said they had been walking down the line to see how long it was, and staff shoved them and told them to get to the end. Keeping lines in control and organized is important, but no staff should ever lay a finger on an attendee unless absolutely necessary. And if that's the case, they should be calling con ops to call the police.

Many of you might not have had jobs, but even McDonalds teaches you that if someone is breaking rules it is NOT your responsibility to take any more action than notify the people who should.

Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.

I was there for this (I was one of the two guys that walked out with the second guy who talked to you). No he was not higher up on the chain, merely in a position to take care of the matter more than she could. She's the Vice Chair of the convention? I think. But he's the head of safety so, he took care of the issue I assume?

There are staffers out there who are not part of the safety crew. You guys have to realize this, we aren't all the same. =P

The person who runs the info desk are not the same staff who do line controls for events and dances.
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2008, 07:12:34 PM »

I personally don't mind being glomped, hugged, or whatever, I'm all for it. Fanime is fun no matter what just as long as no one tries to pull a Man Faye I'm dandy.

Man Faye...X_X
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2008, 07:58:40 PM »

Now we're bringing up man faye?   :D This could get interesting, hehe.
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2008, 08:01:56 PM »

Remember: Pies (still) = BANNED

Airsoft = bad. Someone walked into the con with a replica M16 with only an orange tip. He was immediately asked to put it away. If viewed upon by a police officer in the wrong angle, that person has the possibility of getting shot......

Also remember: If you are going to bleed, please bleed on the parts of the floor that are red......
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2008, 08:05:46 PM »

Also remember: If you are going to bleed, please bleed on the parts of the floor that are red......
Actually, please feel free to bleed all over Eric. (:
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Re: The con is ruining our fun!
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2008, 08:52:37 PM »


Now... glomping signs? Do you know why they were banned? Because "Pay us money and we will XYZ" is considered prostitution, and far to many people had "pay us to make out" signs and such rather than simply glomp me signs. Personally I think glomping is retarded, you might as well have a tackle me sign. Hugs are fine (so long as everyone showers), there was a cute asian girl walking around asking for hugs, she did it last year of the year before with a sign. I'm sure no one was complaining about her...

So just keep in mind, glomp me signs were banned as part of a crack down on solicitation. Personally I think they crack down should have been only on solicitation, not simply... advertisement? But i'm not really involved in this and could care less.


Like I said, there's a line, and I think it's poorly trained staff why think they are the hammer of God and can demand anything that cross it. No Fanime is not in a position to hire  real security, but they need to step it up in some way... shoot, just add a disclaimer on the back of the badge disclosing that Fanime and the SJCC are not responsible for anything that might happen therein. Obviously that's not enough, but it would allow staff to use a gentle hand, which they should, rather than believe they are a hammer of justice.

I wonder who you are to state this. Unless you are con staff that made the decision, or part of the circle of conventions that discuss on the secret mailing list, and you were one of the original advocators, I don't know how you can claim that as fact over some of the people on this forum...

Anyways. You can put monetary value on a glomp, because it is a service. A service is a service... in which a monetary value can be attached to it(even if that monetary value is free). It'd be like soliciting for a car wash, or asking for donations in front of a store. It's solicitation because you are not associated with the organization, and you are offering/asking for service.

Sorry, but the law will agree with the business over the person holding the sign in this situation on what "solicitation" is... as does the lawyer I just asked to double check. You seemed to miss the over all point of the ban on the signs if you think it was merely to stop solicitation, and you clearly didn't read my first post.

But just to recap... people use the sign as an excuse to act unruly and it causes other problems, like fire hazards.
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